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Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole

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Re: Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole

#221

Post by Nextgrid »

bennysomething wrote: post #187

Can someone explain this to me: are smart TVs full of adverts now? In both Europe and USA? Are dumb TVs still a thing?

Some smart TVs display ads, others are "upgraded" into displaying ads later on even if they didn't do so originally, but most importantly, a lot of them spy on what you're watching.

Dumb TVs are difficult to come by, what you now need is professional displays.

They come in different ranges and the prices & features vary a lot. Digital signage ones which might be a poor fit for a TV as they're very expensive, have different reliability requirements (24/7 operation) and may lack some features such as 4K, HDR or HDCP which are desirable if you want to use it as a TV. The ones designed/marketed for meeting room use would be my suggestion - are usually based on the same hardware as the consumer version which means you get all the features you'd expect from a consumer-grade TV (the tuner is the only part missing) and cost-wise are reasonable compared to digital signage displays.

I've had good luck with Sony's professional display range: https://pro.sony/en_GB/products/pro-displays - they are reasonably priced (in my case the markup was around 1/3 more than an equivalent consumer-grade version) and give you what seems like a consumer-grade TV with all the normal TV features but a cleaned-up firmware (bare Android TV with no BS, though the Play Store is there if you want, and you can install APKs such as Kodi directly).

Re: Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole

#222

Post by Nextgrid »

KerrAvon wrote: post #12
somat wrote: post #10

What sucks is that none of this will work once the manufacturers figure out DoH.

Are the number of people who do this numerous enough for them to make the effort? (edited to add) I feel like the real problem will be when they start adding wireless connectivity that you can't disable. I can keep my LG off the network today by refusing to configure networking for it. I can't do that if it doesn't use/require my network...

> I feel like the real problem will be when they start adding wireless connectivity that you can't disable

This gets raised all the time but I just don't see it being necessary - the vast majority is happy to voluntarily provide it with an internet connection. The ones like us who fight it is a very small minority not worth spending on including cellular modems (& the associated data plan) in every TV.

Re: Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole

#223

Post by Nextgrid »

burnt_toast wrote: post #23
KerrAvon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the number of people who do this numerous enough for them to make the effort? (edited to add) I feel like the real problem will be when they start adding wireless connectivity that you can't disable. I can keep my LG off the network today by refusing to configure networking for it. I can't do that if it doesn't use/require my network...

I was bored a few months ago and opened up my samsung tv to see if I could unhook the wifi antennas. Turns out there wasn't actually any in there but I was able to desolder the wifi chip. It was a small separate board mounted by 8 or so pins off the motherboard that I had to use low temp solder on. TV still works (minus the streaming services). If you try to open the network settings the screen just shows a loading i…

You got very lucky that the lack of expected hardware didn't crash the boot process. If anyone is considering doing this, I'd suggest tampering with the analog part of the wireless radio instead, so that the OS still sees a Wi-Fi chip, just that it's no longer able to receive anything.

Re: Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole

#224

Post by Nextgrid »

tartoran wrote: post #47
burnt_toast wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was bored a few months ago and opened up my samsung tv to see if I could unhook the wifi antennas. Turns out there wasn't actually any in there but I was able to desolder the wifi chip. It was a small separate board mounted by 8 or so pins off the motherboard that I had to use low temp solder on. TV still works (minus the streaming services). If you try to open the network settings the screen just shows a loading i…

Would just not giving the TV access to wifi be enough or is it constantly bugging you with pop ups?

Some people might be paranoid that the TV would automatically connect to any unencrypted Wi-Fi in range, but I think it's an urban legend as I've never seen it properly demonstrated and documented.

Re: Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole

#225

Post by rsync »

Flameancer wrote: post #149
giantrobot wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't always support the DRM apps want for 4K streaming.

Wait, so you're saying that DRM has become so ingrained in modern tech that if I wanted to connect a firestick to a Dumb Display(No electronics other than to drive the display), if that Display doesn't have DRM functionality then the app won't load or play content even though the firetv has the DRM?

No. Dumb commercial displays with modern hdmi ports function just the way you expect them to.

I don’t know what your other child responses are talking about.

Re: Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole

#226

Post by rsync »

foepys wrote: post #154
xanaxagoras wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the top parent here is FUD. Never give the TV itself access to the internet. Firestick would work for modern DRM, as would apple tv, a computer plugged into HDMI, etc.

Please don't throw the word "FUD" around, especially when you didn't understand the comment. GGP did mean HDCP 2.x (DRM to encrypt the signal between display and device) which is often not supported by commercial displays. Unless devices detect a compatible, DRM-protected display, devices will refuse to play UHD content made by the movie industry.

This is true, of course, but modern commercial displays typically do have modern hdmi and hdcp specs so it shouldn’t be an issue.

Even 12 year old NEC p-series (used at airports, usually) have hdcp.

Re: Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole

#227

Post by drcongo »

xanaxagoras wrote: post #151

I don't get it. Also down below there's even a whole comment chain about how "hard it is" to buy a dumb TV. Why bother with all this blocking, just disable the surveillance entirely. Change your wifi password, don't give the new one to the TV, and use a computer as input. A TV is a big dumb monitor, full stop.

A TV also shouldn't need an operating system that takes 30 seconds to boot up and gets laggier over time until it crashes and the TV becomes unusable. There's much more to a dumb TV than just a "smart" TV with the internet switched off.

Re: Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole

#228

Post by drcongo »

Nextgrid wrote: post #220
paulcole wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> while web developers at tiny companies sweat over whether we can save an IP for five minutes is beyond me Maybe they shouldn’t? Either block European traffic or do whatever you want and figure it out later when you’re big enough to be on somebody’s radar.

Given my experience reporting breaches to the ICO and seeing no tangible action even for an actor clearly operating in bad faith and brazenly ignoring the ICO's letters, a head-in-the-sand approach to GDPR compliance is unfortunately a very valid strategy.

To be fair to the ICO, they're chronically understaffed. The only time I have ever needed them, they did the one thing I needed of them - reply-all to an email accepting the complaint I was making.

Re: Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole

#229

Post by giantrobot »

Nextgrid wrote: post #207
giantrobot wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't always support the DRM apps want for 4K streaming.

My Sony Bravia professional display does support HDCP. I suspect it’s actually the same hardware as the consumer version but with a different firmware. So maybe if this is a concern look for models that have equivalents in the consumer range rather than purpose-built professional displays which might lack HDCP-compliant hardware.

I'd guess most commercial displays are the consumer hardware with an alternate firmware. But the difference in firmware can mean a lack of HDCP 2.0/2.2. I bought a new TV recently and I wanted to go with a commercial display. It was unfortunately hard to find reviews of such displays and/or lists of missing features (HDCP 2.0, etc). I ended up just getting a consumer TV and banning it from the Internet. All it's content comes through an AppleTV so I don't need or want any of its native apps.

It's a ridiculous state of affairs that I have to jump through hoops just to get a TV to display a fucking video feed. I don't need or want the TV's software. I don't need or want a UI more complicated than the old analog TV genlocked character generator UI. I'll plug smart stuff into the TV if I want.

Edit: Added HDCP version

Re: Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole

#230

Post by eli »

throw0101a wrote: post #101
eli wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a stretch given the context. A smart TV maker can put whatever they want in their own client software. They don't care what features Firefox and Google support.

Who do you think was pushing for the DNS-over-HTTPS standard? Authors' Addresses Paul Hoffman ICANN Email: paul.hoffman@icann.org Patrick McManus Mozilla Email: mcmanus@ducksong.com * https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8484

If DoH didn’t exist, a device manufacturer could trivially reinvent something equivalent. DoH isn’t the problem.
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