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Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

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Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#151

Post by verisimi »

heavenlyblue wrote: post #69
verisimi wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all honesty, we don't know anything about anything. Did the jamming really happen, did Russia do it, etc? There are in fact reasons why anti-Russian countries would undertake this themselves, or even just make up the story. The reasons being that it drums up support for their cause, draws lines that people have to be on one side or another, etc. Ultimately, this is an epistemological question - what do we know? An…

I am sorry but this is exactly the same argument that a lot of Russian population uses. Yes, we may not know everything, but we are more informed than the Russian/Chinese population in general.

How? Why do you think so?

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#152

Post by gcthomas »

chrisco255 wrote: post #123
yason wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia generally acts rationally. It's just that the assumptions and axioms on top of which rationality is applied is different from the West and ― apparently ― not uncommonly delusional. This made it very hard for the West to believe what Russia was saying for years about Ukraine, for example. Further, the explanations seem to differ whether they're addressed to Russians or to other countries. Russia's own populatio…

Putin's approval rating in Russia has only increased since the war in Ukraine started. Also, Russian weaponry has only improved since the fall of the USSR. I'm not sure why you're arguing that Russia cannot do what they are currently doing.

It is hard to measure approval in places like Russia, where people who say the wrong things publicly enough disappear from their homes. Most ordinary Russians hold two opinions: a public one and one for round the kitchen table. Which one are you referring to?

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#153

Post by mhh__ »

chrisco255 wrote: post #124
trasz wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the crucial thing to understand is that current Russia isn’t just some “failed state” - it’s a crime syndicate that, due to historical mistake in 1990, was allowed to get its own country. See this thread for explanations: https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1502673952572854278?s...

That assertion is rather unsatisfying given that Russia is indeed a nation state with 1000 or so years of history.

Mach's principle is true but the sun dominates our lives i.e. culture and history are important to understand but are rarely models for future policy IMO (in particular cultural arguments about society are often peddled by those who judge too easily or those who are scared)

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#154

Post by mejutoco »

waihtis wrote: post #134
AlexandrB wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russians have literally had 8 years of democracy in the past 600+ years, otherwise it's always been an autocracy. To pin this on the Russian people is ludicrous. I think Russia has been consistently dealt a bad hand when it comes to leadership. And interference from the "west" has also been a negative influence in modern times. Consider Lenin[1] and western economic advice that led to the looting of the Russian sta…

I'm not pinning anything on anyone. The parent comment claimed that "Russians like strong leaders" is a falsehood yet the history claims otherwise.

This might have happenned in the past without people liking/approving of it. History does not prove any liking here.

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#155

Post by gcthomas »

sdoering wrote: post #132
nextlevelwizard wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>condescending western rhetoric. >Ucrain I don't know. Just a smell.

Not sure what you imply.

I think he is implying that a 0.05% typo rate is a sign of ulterior motives or incompetence. Apparently.

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#156

Post by RobertMiller »

atoav wrote: post #13
waihtis wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suggesting Russians are playing a rational game here? I think the cover has been pulled on the Russian "master strategy".. it's literally a hierarchy of terror and lies, where everyone will do whatever it takes to please the irrational autocrat. I have been spamming this lecture everywhere since the war started and again I think anyone who's still questioning the Russian operative reality should watch it: Evaluation…

I watched that evaluation yesterday and I think it is spot on and I second your recommendation. Many western officials (as most people) seem to be unable to put themselves into this different environment and framework of values. Knowing a lot about a country helps, but judging them by the values you'd have doesn't help you a bit. Edit: Take the below with a grain of salt, this is one personal experience which can/sho…

This reminds me of the way my troop used to play "greased watermelon" in boyscouts in America. Basically get a watermelon greased up with vaseline, throw it into the lake and let everybody battle royale over it. There were usually some black eyes by the end of it, but it was a lot of fun.

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#157

Post by saiya-jin »

chrisco255 wrote: post #123
yason wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia generally acts rationally. It's just that the assumptions and axioms on top of which rationality is applied is different from the West and ― apparently ― not uncommonly delusional. This made it very hard for the West to believe what Russia was saying for years about Ukraine, for example. Further, the explanations seem to differ whether they're addressed to Russians or to other countries. Russia's own populatio…

Putin's approval rating in Russia has only increased since the war in Ukraine started. Also, Russian weaponry has only improved since the fall of the USSR. I'm not sure why you're arguing that Russia cannot do what they are currently doing.

Russian weaponry didn't improve, in opposite. Don't look at the paper numbers, they have maybe 10% of the machinery fully operational, spread over very wide territory. The rest is there for spare parts at best.

You mean the russian tank (armata) that they found out they can't build en masse? Or those 40 or 50 years old tanks actually used in Ukraine, which were new during USSR but not so much anymore, and javelins make a quick work out of them. At least from those that don't break by themselves due to poor maintenance (which is due to theft and corruption and general russian approach).

I saw some pictures how the pockets of active armor were empty or stuffed with egg paper wrappings. Again. Same happened in Georgia. Some mighty army. Soldiers selling gas to belarus civilians just before the invasion. Then running out of it in the fields. This conflict showed how weak their army is in conventional conflict.

That being said they have some impressively horrifying thermobaric weapons like TOS-1 which they currently use on civilians. But it doesn't seem they have a lot of it and those alone don't win wars.

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#158

Post by p1esk »

sega_sai wrote: post #122
waihtis wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suggesting Russians are playing a rational game here? I think the cover has been pulled on the Russian "master strategy".. it's literally a hierarchy of terror and lies, where everyone will do whatever it takes to please the irrational autocrat. I have been spamming this lecture everywhere since the war started and again I think anyone who's still questioning the Russian operative reality should watch it: Evaluation…

I started to watch it and it was indeed interesting, till it reached the point where the presenter claimed that Khodorkovsky was jailed because he stole too much. That's just plain false, and kind'a casts doubt on how expert is this expert. He was jailed for his political stance, that he didn't want to bow down to Putin. It's true that his first sentence for various tax dodging schemes in the 90s (that many at the ti…

He stole so much he started to think he could challenge Putin. That’s why he got jailed. In Russia (then and now) you get charged with “tax dodging schemes” when you either challenge the mafia bosses or don’t pay them enough.

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#159

Post by hn_go_brrrrr »

chrisco255 wrote: post #120
waihtis wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would never make the mistake of thinking him stupid, but the power structure underneath him pervades his visibility and makes him do irrational things. Seriously, watch the lecture I linked.

Could the same be said of Washington bureaucracy? After all, we have a tremendous record of foreign policy blunders over the last 25 years or so.

It's not exactly the same, but similar enough. This is because institutions warp incentives. Holding institutions accountable is the primary way you combat that.

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#160

Post by Tams80 »

atoav wrote: post #13
waihtis wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suggesting Russians are playing a rational game here? I think the cover has been pulled on the Russian "master strategy".. it's literally a hierarchy of terror and lies, where everyone will do whatever it takes to please the irrational autocrat. I have been spamming this lecture everywhere since the war started and again I think anyone who's still questioning the Russian operative reality should watch it: Evaluation…

I watched that evaluation yesterday and I think it is spot on and I second your recommendation. Many western officials (as most people) seem to be unable to put themselves into this different environment and framework of values. Knowing a lot about a country helps, but judging them by the values you'd have doesn't help you a bit. Edit: Take the below with a grain of salt, this is one personal experience which can/sho…

I'm not sure if it's in the same vein, and I'm showing my youth here, but:

In primary/elementary school there were a couple of Russian students. One called Vova was in my class. One day he stole my Pokémon game. Fair(ish) enough, others had stolen other stuff at that school occasionally. But no, he wiped my save file and then went on a tirade of lies to the teachers that it had been his game all along.

It utterly baffled young me as to why you'd go to those lengths.

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