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25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

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Re: 25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

#51

Post by tomjen3 »

bocmaxima wrote: post #27
kapilkale wrote: post #4

I don't regret going to management consulting after college. In my opinion, it's the best possible career choice for people who don't know what they want to do. In my time in consulting, I was exposed to people in every corporate function possible, and had the chance to see what their jobs were like. I worked for tech companies, PE firms, corporations, and government-regulated entities. I spent 6 months in growth equ…

FB and Amazon turned out just fine without your help, the only reason you wish you had worked there was in order to extract and benefit from the great pool of wealth and prestige. Your value to society is nil for as long as you spend more mental energy consuming more than you create. Remember that all highly educated people bear a responsibility much greater than ourselves, and this responsibility is fulfilled only b…

No we don't bear any responsibility to others. We worked for were we are and shouldn't be burdened with losers.

Re: 25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

#53

Post by bane »

david927 wrote: post #43
rayiner wrote: post #16

I mean, if you had the opportunity to earn six figures at graduation, wouldn't you go into these fields too? 75% of Yalies are normal people (the other 25% come from money). They're the children of working professionals, federal government employees, etc. They have had comfortable upbringings, but their families don't have "fuck you" money. They've been pushed and prodded all their life by parents who, like everyone…

I imagine the question isn't, "Why are they going into this lucrative industry?" as much as it is, "why is this industry so exceptionally lucrative?" To me, the financial industry looks like every other bubble right before the pop with everyone trying to pile in to the money machine, but any close examination of the machine reveals an empty ruse. Maybe you're right and they were pushed into it. But it's short-term th…

"To me, the financial industry looks like every other bubble right before the pop with everyone trying to pile in to the money machine, but any close examination of the machine reveals an empty ruse."

And I don't think I've ever heard a kind word about management consultants. A field dominated by 20 somethings with 0 professional work experience brought in to tell executives and managers of highly successful multi-million/billion dollar companies how to run their businesses...

A question each and every person that hires a management consultant should ask themselves, "would I hire this 20 something to run my organization?" If the answer is no, then why are you paying them to tell you how to run it?

It's a bit like bringing in a random, just out of school, development consultant and giving them charge over major development teams. Oh wait, I've seen that happen too, each project then proceeded to go several times over budget and were delivered broken and late and eventually scrapped.

"why is this industry so exceptionally lucrative?"

The honest to god real reason these guys are hired, and how the system ultimately works, is for a couple of really quite bad reasons

a) The CEO ends up in a bind with no good ideas, or knows that no matter what happens, they're screwed. It could be lack of product, or a better competitor, etc.

b) The CEO doesn't want to appear weak so that people will still follow him/her while the ship sinks.

So they bring in management consultants, sold as "experts". Having a bunch of Ivy Leaguers helps with that image. The entire problem, including the blame for when it inevitably fails, is intended to go onto the Consultants. Their job is to appear busy and smart, then take the blame (and the large consultancy fee) when it all falls apart. This leaves the CEO in a good position "I brought in experts and even they couldn't make it work!".

And that's it.

That's the entire management consultancy industry in a nutshell. Blame for pay.

A great article on the phenomenon that describes a life I've had confirmed by several friends in the field who've all since gotten out: http://tech.mit.edu/V130/N18/dubai.html

(they were all also shocked at how hard it is to actually run a company vs. what their years in management consultancy led them to believe)

Re: 25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

#54

Post by jbooth »

tomjen3 wrote: post #51
bocmaxima wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FB and Amazon turned out just fine without your help, the only reason you wish you had worked there was in order to extract and benefit from the great pool of wealth and prestige. Your value to society is nil for as long as you spend more mental energy consuming more than you create. Remember that all highly educated people bear a responsibility much greater than ourselves, and this responsibility is fulfilled only b…

No we don't bear any responsibility to others. We worked for were we are and shouldn't be burdened with losers.

Yeah, good thing that you built those roads you drove to work on this morning. And that you had the foresight to hire those elementary school teachers to teach you math.

Re: 25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

#55

Post by michaelochurch »

rayiner wrote: post #16

I mean, if you had the opportunity to earn six figures at graduation, wouldn't you go into these fields too? 75% of Yalies are normal people (the other 25% come from money). They're the children of working professionals, federal government employees, etc. They have had comfortable upbringings, but their families don't have "fuck you" money. They've been pushed and prodded all their life by parents who, like everyone…

Depressing yet very accurate.

Re: 25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

#56

Post by jbooth »

kapilkale wrote: post #37
pigbucket wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Honestly, should the consulting thing confuse or worry anyone? I think the author did a pretty good job of explaining why she is worried, and while your two points are compelling, neither really addresses that explanation. You've got people who wanted to be artists, or public servants, or writers, or filmmakers, or non-profit workers, giving up their dreams for the sake of the security offered seductively by profes…

This is so rarely the case. At my firm the percentage of people in consulting who wanted to be artists, public servants, writers, or filmmakers is less than 10%. The way you've described it makes it sound like all these Yalie beatniks are selling out for the prospect of a stable paycheck. Many of my colleagues weren't lifelong consultants, but they were lifelong businesspeople. The ones who left went on to start tech…

Well, whatever their passions were, writing powerpoint decks in order to justify internal power moves at another company, because someone wanted something done so they hired you to provide post hoc rationalization for it.. I mean, really? This is what we're doing with "the best and the brightest"? Expert MS Office users?

Re: 25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

#57

Post by [deleted] »

roel_v wrote: post #42
bocmaxima wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can be sure that I was not kidding. Any form of education, combined with intellect and curiosity is a privilege that (believe it or not) a lot of people don't have. Some possess this virtue without the means of attaining it, while others bear the Fortune without the virtue. To be educated and intelligent is to possess a great tool which can serve many if put to good use.

Are you seriously suggesting that people have some form of 'obligation' towards the others, just because they were born with/in a certain intelligence and environment, and that therefore they should relinquish their freedom to do whatever they want for the benefit of the others? If so, and if you're not trolling, I am seriously discomforted and even appalled by your apparent proposition of a fascist or communist "fro…

[deleted]

Re: 25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

#58

Post by gizmo »

roel_v wrote: post #42
bocmaxima wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can be sure that I was not kidding. Any form of education, combined with intellect and curiosity is a privilege that (believe it or not) a lot of people don't have. Some possess this virtue without the means of attaining it, while others bear the Fortune without the virtue. To be educated and intelligent is to possess a great tool which can serve many if put to good use.

Are you seriously suggesting that people have some form of 'obligation' towards the others, just because they were born with/in a certain intelligence and environment, and that therefore they should relinquish their freedom to do whatever they want for the benefit of the others? If so, and if you're not trolling, I am seriously discomforted and even appalled by your apparent proposition of a fascist or communist "fro…

We are so advantaged compared to the rest of humanity it isn't even funny. We have opportunities other people would kill for. We are in a position where we can make a meaningful positive contribution to the world. To throw that all away would be a huge waste.

You don't have to sacrifice personal happiness, but yes, if you're in a position where you can do good and if you then choose not to do good I do consider that somewhat unethical.

Working hard for people like us consists of sitting on a chair and listening to music while we type for 6 hours a day. Maybe another 4 hours or so of chatting and planning and sketching out ideas. While the rest of the world is born in a position where the choice is between backbreaking work for 12 hours a day or being unable to feed the family.

Yes, we have the freedom to lounge about even though a billion people are underfed or living in otherwise miserable conditions, but who can in good conscience exercise that right?

Re: 25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

#59

Post by bane »

I might point out, after reading many of the comments here, that people who are currently or have done management consulting in the past all say essentially the same thing about the experience -- it was great for them, they saw lots of stuff, traveled a bit, made some money.

But none of them say they actually helped a single employee of a single organization actually accomplish anything in particular for all the fees and free experience being paid to them so they could gain this wide experience, travel and fat paycheck.

And if it's not clear, this is precisely what we're talking about with the field not being a net contributor to society.

(also interestingly, to the person, every single person I've ever known who worked in the field all say they would have done something different if they could go and tell their 21 year old self one thing)

Re: 25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

#60

Post by abrimo »

gizmo wrote: post #58
roel_v wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you seriously suggesting that people have some form of 'obligation' towards the others, just because they were born with/in a certain intelligence and environment, and that therefore they should relinquish their freedom to do whatever they want for the benefit of the others? If so, and if you're not trolling, I am seriously discomforted and even appalled by your apparent proposition of a fascist or communist "fro…

We are so advantaged compared to the rest of humanity it isn't even funny. We have opportunities other people would kill for. We are in a position where we can make a meaningful positive contribution to the world. To throw that all away would be a huge waste. You don't have to sacrifice personal happiness, but yes, if you're in a position where you can do good and if you then choose not to do good I do consider that…

I completely agree. Although it might seem like we work hard and are fairly rewarded, the fact we have the skills and opportunities that we do is through no doing of our own.

President Kennedy gave a great speech about the role and responsibilities of educated people in society. 'Increased responsibility goes with increased ability, for "of those to whom much is given, much is required."' http://www.jfklibrary.org/Asset-Viewer/aZ0Im5s0mUqPJlFNs6iO4...

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