United States has the capability to degrade or deny GPS based on location. Russia has also demonstrated the ability to spoof GPS signals. Either is a likely cause here.
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Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference
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Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference
#32United States has the capability to degrade or deny GPS based on location. Russia has also demonstrated the ability to spoof GPS signals. Either is a likely cause here.
What would be the United States's interest to mess up with GPS now?
Jamming and spoofing GPS poses less risk than imposing a no fly zone.
Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference
#33United States has the capability to degrade or deny GPS based on location. Russia has also demonstrated the ability to spoof GPS signals. Either is a likely cause here.
The United States do not have the ability to degrade or deny a gps signal based on location unless that particular location has a physical GPS jammer. I don't see what the US would gain from disrupting civilian airtraffic navigation. Just stop with your "either is a likely cause here"-spiel.
Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference
#34Russia has previously and frequently conducted (GPS) jamming exercises in the northern area, which has resulted in the same thing for pilots there. EDIT: These things are more likely to happen in times of military exercises or similar activities. Right now there's lots of activity in the Baltic region - which is likely why things are happening. Whenever there's large NATO exercises in Northern Norway, these things st…
> Whenever there's large NATO exercises in Northern Norway, these things start happening.
Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
What would be the United States's interest to mess up with GPS now?
Jamming and spoofing GPS poses less risk than imposing a no fly zone.
> a no fly zone.
Uhm... Finland is several countries north of Ukraine. This is about the eastern Baltic region. I guess you are referring to the rejected NATO-maintained no-fly zone over Ukraine? Or do you mean a no-fly zone imposed by Russia for its Baltic region neighbors??
> According to reports, the interference isn't limited to Finland but also affects Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, and the broader Baltic region.
Also, a jammed GPS has little impact on flying, especially not on Russian military flying. They have their own system GLONASS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLONASS).
Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference
#36The clear suggestion is that it is Russia doing it. Other than as an f-u, I don’t understand why they would though. If I have an effective weapon (GPS spoofer), surely I don’t want to alert the enemy to it, lest they develop defences. So eg say NATO were overreliant on GPS, incidents of spoofing like this will cause them to rethink and reduce that reliance, or harden the system.
In all honesty, we don't know anything about anything. Did the jamming really happen, did Russia do it, etc?
There are in fact reasons why anti-Russian countries would undertake this themselves, or even just make up the story. The reasons being that it drums up support for their cause, draws lines that people have to be on one side or another, etc.
Ultimately, this is an epistemological question - what do we know? And the only things one can say one knows, is stuff you have personally verified. After that, you are believing and trusting - the news, the footage, your governments, etc.
Is trusting those sources really an acceptable basis for any autonomous individual to proceed?
Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
I watched that evaluation yesterday and I think it is spot on and I second your recommendation. Many western officials (as most people) seem to be unable to put themselves into this different environment and framework of values. Knowing a lot about a country helps, but judging them by the values you'd have doesn't help you a bit. Edit: Take the below with a grain of salt, this is one personal experience which can/sho…
I've only lived in 3 countries and all I have learned is that some people are good/nice/polite and some people are bad/ugly/rude regardelss of their nationality, religion or culture.
Do we need some kind of -ism for jerks? Or maybe just the term "jerks" is enough.
I fucking hate jerks. But sometimes jerks move in and out being classified as jerks, probably myself included, probably you too, dear reader. But when they're being jerks I fucking hate jerks. But if I haven't met them yet, then I haven't defined them as a jerk because in my life's experience I've met jerks that cross any and all classification boundaries; tall and short, old and young, male and female, American, Chinese, Canadian, Australian, Vietnamese, German, white-skinned, dark-skinned, olive-skinned, blue eyed, hazel-eyed, blonde-haired, ginger-haired, bald, purple-mohawked (that's actually not true, I've never come a cross a purple-mohawked jerk, but I'm sure someone has).
Everyone should rally against jerks, but there's no way to recognise one quickly and easily without going through the unpleasant interaction that tars them with the jerk brush.
And that's why we should dislike them, because they disguise themselves so well, and that's a learned skill of the jerk, because it'd be too difficult to go around being a jerk if there was an easy way to tell them all apart from the majority of nice people that make the world worthwhile enough to put up with jerk-kind.
Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference
#38The clear suggestion is that it is Russia doing it. Other than as an f-u, I don’t understand why they would though. If I have an effective weapon (GPS spoofer), surely I don’t want to alert the enemy to it, lest they develop defences. So eg say NATO were overreliant on GPS, incidents of spoofing like this will cause them to rethink and reduce that reliance, or harden the system.
Obviously there are time asymmetries between discovering a problem, developing a fix and deploying the fix.
Depending on the details it may require significant hardware upgrades.
In the real world outside of software everything is not solvable through a simple patch.
Last if you believe NATO is prepared for a real conflict I suggest you compare with how much of the world including institutions meant to keep us safe responded to Covid: denial, lies, misinformation, and hysteria.
Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference
#39Disrupting GPS may result in some economic chaos - it is used for precise time synchronization on financial markets.
It would be annoying but far from chaos for a few reasons
- Its pretty easy to detect. Similar problems come up occasionally, often due to drivers jamming their companies’ remote monitoring.
- The time services in any well operated network will operate well within tolerance for very extended periods without this signal (some bigger ones don’t use GPS time at all for reasons like this) Time labs offer their own signals.
Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wow. When I was a kid I was on holiday playing together with Russians, Brits, Belgians and other German kids. While the Russian kids were playing by the rules (at least not significantly outside of that) especially the British kiddos did everything they could to win the medals we received in these games from the hotel. So what does my anecdata tell us? Nothing. I have great experiences with Russian people while I was…
> So what does my anecdata tell us? Nothing. You are surely right there, but having played with a ton of kids from all nationalities as well (football, handball, whatever) this episode still stood out for me, because it was much more brutal than anything else I had experienced out of tournaments and "serious" games. The game in question here was not even a hotel tournament, it was just a "hey, wanna play a round"-kin…
Should I judge all individuals by the country they come from? Within your own country, have you met people who are great and others who are not? Even within your own school or workplace?
Although governments that run countries would have you believe there is such a thing as a country - this is merely a fiction that is commonly believed. There are no countries, just beliefs. There are no collectives either - that too is a belief.
There really are individuals though.