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A short conversation with a bank

newsletter.danhon.com

181–190 of 316 posts

Re: A short conversation with a bank

#182

> with Gmail, where you were so aggressive about mining receipt data from Amazon that when I get a receipt from Amazon now it doesn’t actually include what I bought Wow, he's right. The item name no longer appears on emailed receipts I receive from Amazon as of about late 2019 or early 2020. I can't think of a plausible explanation for this change other than preventing Google from pilfering your detailed purchase his…

Nah, Amazon just figured out they could get you to buy more by getting you to click back into the website.

Gmail hasn't mined data for commercial purposes for half a decade now. Someone at Amazon took dark-pattern customer engagement 101.

Re: A short conversation with a bank

#183
post #139

I know this is the kind of flattering in-group humor aimed at people like me, but I still found it hilarious. Also, considering that I'm listening to a talk about the computational complexity of economic planning on the side, the "we should recreate the entire financial system from first principles" part felt like a rude yet completely deserved callout.

> I'm listening to a talk about the computational complexity of economic planning Ooo, sounds interesting! Link?

https://youtu.be/soDlyercgOo

Fwiw, I don't think economic planning is or was the main problem of socialism, more the information gathering that precedes it or the mechanism design that comes after, but I have a soft spot in my heart for anyone engaging productively with alternatives to capitalism, even if they aren't particularly fleshed out.

Re: A short conversation with a bank

#184

A short conversation with Blue Shield of California last month: BS: Have a question? Ask us via this very useful secure messaging form! Me: Great! Can you explain the difference between these two arcane out-of-pocket limits that you display that are un-Googleable and nowhere in your documentation that I can never find anyway? BS: Sure! We will wait two days and then send you an email suggestively titled "a response t…

This sounds exactly like my kids school district. They send an email telling you you have a "secure message" and you need to log in to see it. So you try to sign up to see the message, but can't because you don't have the password. So you try calling them and they say they will reply via email. What they mean is that they will send you a secure message about your inability to receive secure messages. So you call agai…

Banking, health insurance, education

I see a trend!

Re: A short conversation with a bank

#185

Disclaimer: I work in a bank and have worked closely with the customer support team. Here's the thing: retail banking margin is actually quite low and customer support is expensive. If you are someone who routinely calls your bank then your long-term value (LTV) is going to take a huge hit, so, of course banks want to keep everything as "low-touch" as possible. A small anecdote: there were plenty of elderly people wh…

While I appreciate this argument, I feel it's disingenuous. The reason is that this problem doesn't just apply to banks, it applies to every goddamn service I try to make contact with these days. The systems are setup to waste a users time so only by showing a large commitment of time and emotional frustration can you get to talk to a human. The net result is massive waste of everyone's time. It's a race to the botto…

One problem I've observed first hand is that the head of customer service is measured on (among other things) the amount of money being spent on customer service (and other closely-related metrics like average contacts per order, agent time spent per customer, etc.). These executives have no direct control over the product, so they can't actually solve the problems that are causing people to contact customer service. For example, they aren't in charge of the warehouses, so if for example a ton of people are calling in because they are getting the wrong item in the orders, the CS leader is getting dinged in their metrics but can't address the root cause.

This leads them to do things like those being discussed, where they take measures to reduce contacts without solving any real problems. Maybe if "customer satisfaction" were a more important metric than "CS budget," this would be better, but customer satisfaction is very hard to actually measure (how many of us even bother filling out surveys, and of those who do, how many are honest?).

I guess a lot of this boils down to "big company syndrome" where the customer experience is controlled by a series of interlocking factors, but the humans who control those factors are siloed and disincentivized to work together to improve things. My experience is that in most of these situations, people actually do have good intentions overall. You wouldn't believe the ways I've heard CS executives twist themselves into knots to convince people that outsourced or automated customer service is actually better for the customer (and I think they truly did believe it, or at least had fooled themselves into believing it). But the end result is bad for everyone.

Re: A short conversation with a bank

#186

A short conversation with Blue Shield of California last month: BS: Have a question? Ask us via this very useful secure messaging form! Me: Great! Can you explain the difference between these two arcane out-of-pocket limits that you display that are un-Googleable and nowhere in your documentation that I can never find anyway? BS: Sure! We will wait two days and then send you an email suggestively titled "a response t…

This sounds exactly like my kids school district. They send an email telling you you have a "secure message" and you need to log in to see it. So you try to sign up to see the message, but can't because you don't have the password. So you try calling them and they say they will reply via email. What they mean is that they will send you a secure message about your inability to receive secure messages. So you call agai…

Next time just fill out the "forgot your password" form.

Re: A short conversation with a bank

#187

A short conversation with Blue Shield of California last month: BS: Have a question? Ask us via this very useful secure messaging form! Me: Great! Can you explain the difference between these two arcane out-of-pocket limits that you display that are un-Googleable and nowhere in your documentation that I can never find anyway? BS: Sure! We will wait two days and then send you an email suggestively titled "a response t…

This sounds exactly like my kids school district. They send an email telling you you have a "secure message" and you need to log in to see it. So you try to sign up to see the message, but can't because you don't have the password. So you try calling them and they say they will reply via email. What they mean is that they will send you a secure message about your inability to receive secure messages. So you call agai…

It's hard to recover from the memories of wasted time, effort, and frustration when the schools when distance-learning only in 2020.

"We will start using Google Classroom for all communication, class materials, lesson videos, live meetings, and grades"

Sure. Good. Come grade time:

"Your child is missing a lot of work. It's all due in a week."

Kid, you have to do x,y,z missing assignments listed on Google Classroom.

"Your child has already completed x."

It was marked missing on Google Classroom.

"Please refer to Infinite Campus to see which assignments are missing."

Ok...I signed up for Infinite Campus, and I don't see anything.

"Did you use the user/pass we automatically created for each parent?"

What? No.

"Sir, we sent out this information weeks ago."

Search...search...manual search...I don't see it on Google Classroom.

"Oh, we sent it through ClassDojo."

---

This is very simplified. Google Classroom required teacher-provided codes to join "classes" for each subject, provided through...school email! School email is an unused morass for Google Classroom notification emails for every action your child or their teacher makes. Get a teacher message on ClassDojo? Sorry, can't tell if it was a mass message or directed at you, so you have to clarify whether it applies to your kid given their IEP. Got two parents using Dojo? Sorry, can't see if the other parent has already responded to a teacher message. Completed an assignment on Classroom but didn't click "Turn in"? Missing. Can't find where to enter answers? Oops, your child knows to use ImagineMathExploreLinkConnect to get to that material. Completed on that fourth-party platform, but didn't go back to Classroom to click "Turn in?" Missing. Triple checked everything but still a bunch of missing assignments in Infinite Campus? Teacher is behind on grading, and there's no way to know that, either from Infinite Campus or Google Classroom, but it was in the class newsletter we emailed to your child.

Maybe not all employers, but at least mine does not realize quite how much further parents fell behind that year than those without school-age kids, on balance.

When schools excitedly announce a new platform for learning anything, I want to punch myself in the face.

Re: A short conversation with a bank

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://imgur.com/a/t7M2RGv When I called, I was told that it's there to show that the OOP max for in-network and out-of-network providers isn't summed to get my total OOP max; instead it's just equal to my OON OOP max. (Of course, this plan makes it hard to go bankrupt, unlike all ACA plans. That was a bit of literary liberty.)

Excuse me -- your yearly deductible is $10,000? Here I thought €385 was a lot...

I have 8 numbers (well... 6 and 2 'no max)...

DED-INN/OON

Me: $7k/$35k

Fam: $14k/$70k

OOP Max-INN/OON

Me: $7k/no max

Fam: $14k/no max

I regret leaving my grandfathered plan from 2010 - every year I got a threat saying it would be gone next year, then magically one more 'extension' with a threat that it would be gone next year again. And the price kept going up. Switched to ACA plan and... I missed this 'no max' stuff. Fingers crossed I don't need healthcare if I'm ... you know, outside whatever 'network' might happen to take me in for care.

Re: A short conversation with a bank

#189
post #72
post #61

Two anecdotal- I will say simple was a joy to work with, even for things that were old. I would never have closed on my house in time if not for them. Sadly- it seems that since BBVA -> PNC … everything historic for that account is gone. Unrelated to banks: Me: I’m calling because I got a notice that you’re cancelling my healthcare due to non payment of my premium? Healthcare service line: yes. You had a responsibili…

I miss Simple. I liked it ever since finding it in a sponsored content slot on the new Digg. I cobbled together something like the Goals feature with spreadsheets, but it's not the same. As for BBVA->PNC, I had to get the CFPB involved just to get confirmation that my account was closed. https://old.reddit.com/r/BBVABank/comments/pypk87/good_news_... https://old.reddit.com/r/BBVABank/comments/r53cjt/it_was_ano... The…

I had issues closing my PNC account as well, but eventually I was able to successfully do so. Something had been migrated strangely where I was getting statements and things mailed, but in branch or on the phone they couldn’t pull me up, nor could I login to online banking.

Eventually something happened that triggered a fee, which after two cycles put the account negative, at which point they were able to close the account and I paid the fees. (The balance had been very low as I had planned to close it but hadn’t before the BBVA->PNC transition!)

I’m Sorry you had to go through all that. It sounds incredibly frustrating.

But I miss simple so much as well. I miss how easy everything was. Even with my local credit union… who I would rank as okay, it took 10+ days and over a dozen emails to setup online banking.

Re: A short conversation with a bank

#190
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably pay way more in taxes. If I was given a choice between (1) an additional 20% income tax and free healthcare, or (2) crazy $10k/year out of pocket maximum, I'll choose 2 without a blink.

At the risk of turning this into a political debate -- yes, you pay more taxes if you earn more, and less taxes if you earn less. That's how a society is supposed to work: you don't leave people to suffer because they aren't rich.

And at some point, perhaps you'll still get reasonable health care without it being tied to some employment (whether or not you were/are highly paid). Much harder to rely on that in the US.
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