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Finland starts much-delayed nuclear plant, brings respite to power market

reuters.com

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Re: Finland starts much-delayed nuclear plant, brings respite to power market

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is vastly misunderstood in the (artificial) renewables vs nuclear conversation. We keep building effectively one-off complex machines, and then flushing all that knowledge down the drain by saying it cost too much and took too long. Like yes, the first one always takes longer and costs more...

There's no reason to assume that building the same nuclear reactor design multiple time will maintain the same cost or decrease. Even with the supposedly successful French nuclear program, costs increased over time, there was negative learning: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03014... There's huge huge risk in choosing a particular design and building even one of it, because we don't know if it…

Of course there is, it's happened exactly the way I said in South Korea, Japan, and American naval reactors. These projects take a long time to complete and there have been relatively few of them. It therefore stands to reason that the cycle of learning from them and making their construction more predictable would take longer than for e.g. cars.

Far too many people are generalizing from the French and American nuclear programs, both of which built lots of reactors in a comparatively short time and then were fear-mongered into a standstill by the fossil fuel lobby.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030142151...

"""In the third era of nuclear power construction in Japan, from 1980 to 2007, costs remain between ¥250,000/kW and ¥400,000/kW, representing an annual change of −1% to 1%. This period experienced relatively stable costs over 27 years."""

Re: Finland starts much-delayed nuclear plant, brings respite to power market

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much more nuclear wast does that imply per decade? How many more meltdowns per decade?

And heat-polluted waste waters? People keep pretending there are no externalities.

No, people aren’t pretending that. Heat pollution in water is a tiny local issue compared to global warming.

It’s like complaining that a wool blanket is itchy so it might be better to catch hypothermia and die.

Re: Finland starts much-delayed nuclear plant, brings respite to power market

#153
post #118
post #7

Electricity prices are through the roof in Finland right now. This was even the case before the war started. We import an incredible amount of LNG from Russia, a lot of which is used for electricity production if I have it correct, which we would of course like to be independent of. But for the time being we have spikes of 60-70 cents/kWh electricity prices. Hopefully OL3 will help this somewhat. Finland has another…

Couldn't you buy nuclear fuel from e.g. France instead?

For a while, Russian nuclear fuel was cheaper. There are alternative sources if the political interest to not fund Russian exceed the economical interests.

Re: Finland starts much-delayed nuclear plant, brings respite to power market

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but let's build 150% of total needed capacity as renewables, and burn coal for the 5 days a year we still need to.

You start to understand the issue of comparing the raw cost of kWh of renewables to stable energy like nuclear, if you have to build N times the capacity, the cost per kWh is just N times more expensive.

But unlike nuclear, solar/wind is constantly getting cheaper. Nuclear is, frankly, doing the opposite.

Re: Finland starts much-delayed nuclear plant, brings respite to power market

#155
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one, it assumes the average human consumes as much electricity as the average Finn.

You really could have added a lot of value here. Clearly you know a bit about the situation. Please try and bring your knowledge to the table not your offense at someone else's error. I seriously think you could have a lot to offer.

The person you are replying to is not the same person as the one who made the content-free reply. You might want to follow your own advice.

Re: Finland starts much-delayed nuclear plant, brings respite to power market

#156
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extreme cost (money and time) to get it built Difficulties in managing waste 20 years ago I was all for nuclear, then I looked at terrible projects in Europe, like in the Finland and the UK, and realised that it's too little too late. Europe can't build nuclear, so rather than trying to fight a losing battle for another 20 years, Europe should be massively investing in what it can do (offshore wind, tidal, solar, pum…

Plus proliferation of material for nuclear weapons.

I'm thinking proliferation as positive. Just think of countries recently in war had nuclear deterrent. They might not have been invaded in first place. Everyone having nuclear weapons would make world much more peaceful and safer place.

That is unless we sanction all nations that have nuclear weapons and blockade them from international trade until they get rid of them and subject themselves to being open to inspections for couple centuries.

Re: Finland starts much-delayed nuclear plant, brings respite to power market

#157

What I find incredible is: Once this fully ramps up, this one power plant is expected to satisfy 14% of the entire country's electricity needs. 7 of these could power an entire country, 24/7.

I found a link in its Wikipedia page:

https://web.archive.org/web/20130116000447/http://www.hs.fi/...

"Suomenkin uusi ydinvoimala maksaa 8.5 miljardia euroa" which translates to "Finland's new nuclear power plant will also cost 8.5 billion euros."

Re: Finland starts much-delayed nuclear plant, brings respite to power market

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think would be the cost of depending on Russia for energy?

Yup. Energy independence is a cost that’s not factored in. (Then again, solar/wind could serve both factors well)

Solar is not a viable solution in the north. The energy usage goes up when solar generation goes down.

For wind, we're too small country - there are always days without any wind. There are even days without any wind in nearby countries included.

Re: Finland starts much-delayed nuclear plant, brings respite to power market

#159

What I find incredible is: Once this fully ramps up, this one power plant is expected to satisfy 14% of the entire country's electricity needs. 7 of these could power an entire country, 24/7.

Finlands's population is about the same as the Cape Town, Melbourne, or Boston areas

Re: Finland starts much-delayed nuclear plant, brings respite to power market

#160
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When an article starts with chernobyl as example of what mistakes we're likely to make when building a new plant today, it makes me itch to just close the tab and dismiss the opinion of the person who linked it. Not sure why I even bothered digging into it, but for example one later point is also misleading: "uranium resources will be depleted by the end of this century". I think I found the source (not that they lin…

> Accidents in nuclear power plants can have disastrous implications. As in the case if Chernobyl, large areas around the site remain unusable forever What exactly about this do you not buy? And what is your solution for storing nuclear waste safely for hundreds of thousands of years?

You put the waste into containers and bury them deep into a geologically stable mine that you then seal shut.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onkalo_spent_nuclear_fuel_repo...

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