"Medieval" is well put. Sucks to be besieged by the Russian army. What else might they try ? Maybe catapult some dead cows into cities ? Throw dead bodies down wells ? Drop anthrax from drones ? In any case they seem obv keen to avoid urban warfare. Russian mothers are already on alert to the slaughter.
Francis Fukuyama: Preparing for Defeat
141–150 of 225 posts
Re: Francis Fukuyama: Preparing for Defeat
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, although about 15 years ago so my memory of it is admittedly hazy.
So can you explain what exactly has proven to be highly flawed?
In a thread about Russian expansion and the resumption in full flower of the cold war, you're asking which part of The End of History has proven to be flawed?
Re: Francis Fukuyama: Preparing for Defeat
#143People love to lampoon Fukuyama, but he merely put into words and placed on a pedestal an entire mindset (which continues to persist) that has proven to be highly flawed. I am grateful he exists as at least a small focal point people can bring up. Even now the world just continues with this hazy 'everything's gonna be better eventually' talk that is well loved and perpetuated even in the face of an opposing reality.
If he was flawed then liberalism itself was flawed. Current events show once more how terrible and backwards non-liberalism is. His claim wasn't that everything will be perpetually better
Re: Francis Fukuyama: Preparing for Defeat
#144Ha. Contrary to everyone in here i ll say he is right. Please show me a timeline in which the Russian regime comes out of this stronger, or in which the faith in liberalism (democratic or better) is not restored.
Re: Francis Fukuyama: Preparing for Defeat
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
Moscow was far from enthusiastic about the Minsk agreements. Their position has always been that they were only acting as a "mediator" not as a party, thus - conveniently enough for them - they could not be blamed if the agreements broke down. More recently, they've stated outright that the Minsk agreements are dead.
Quoted post unavailable.
> Notably, they include the main clauses of the Minsk agreements
This does not seem accurate. For one thing, the Minsk agreements mention particular districts of Donetz and Luhansk in their text. The change from addressing particular districts to demanding the recognition of Donetz and Luhansk as a whole (if that's not what the Russians have asked for, they've certainly not made that clear) is very significant even on its own. For all we know, these demands might just be part of a bargaining game and not seriously insisted upon - but the change from Minsk II does matter.
Re: Francis Fukuyama: Preparing for Defeat
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If that is not a civil war, what is it? Russian invasion of Donetsk and Luhansk regions of Ukraine. Ironically, since most people living there are Russians, it's Russians killing Russians in Ukraine in the name of Putin's delusions.
So the current war started in 2014, not 2022?
that is correct, the war started in 2014 by occupation of Crimea and eastern parts of Ukraine.
By Putin’s own words, he considered Minsk agreement as a capitulation for Ukraine. But Ukraine did’t want to capitulate, and instead took the time to rebuilt its army. For any Ukrainian it was obvious that Russia will invade soon to try to finish what it started.
Re: Francis Fukuyama: Preparing for Defeat
#147Another counterview has emerged from Meduza, the press group which was 'blocked' in Russia as part of their silencing drive. https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/03/12/has-russia-s-invasio... Apparently, according to Meduza we are only seeing the bright side of things - the news we want to hear. The battlefront has several other shock surprises if you look at the Ukrainian losses. It seems bleeding heavily on both sides…
Everything I’m hearing about Mariupol is the opposite of what I want to hear. It’s an absolute disaster that’s ratcheting up day-by-day. The Russian army is using modern artillery to conduct medieval siege warfare. They’re deliberately starving the whole population to death and the city (like most cities today) had zero preparations to deal with a siege. We’ve got to find some way to get these people supplies!
I don't understand why people are calling these tactics "medieval". The same tactics were also widely used in XX century, e.g. in siege of Leningrad, during the pacification of Warsaw Uprising or in Jugoslavia war in 1990s. They're part of the "total war" package that is and always was on the table for leaders determined to win at all costs (or are just seeking revenge - let's not forget that the Alies burned hundreds of thousands of civilians to death during bombings near the end of WWII).
Re: Francis Fukuyama: Preparing for Defeat
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
So can you explain what exactly has proven to be highly flawed?
In a thread about Russian expansion and the resumption in full flower of the cold war, you're asking which part of The End of History has proven to be flawed?
That's exactly my point. Fukuyama is extremely misunderstood in popular media, he never said that the fall of the soviet union implied continued existence of liberal democracy. If you had actually read the book (and specifically the last chapter) you would know that he wrote that the threat of authoritarianism will always be present and (some) democracies will (at times) fall back into autocratic states from time to time.
Re: Francis Fukuyama: Preparing for Defeat
#149The question I don’t have an answer for here is how does Russia control Ukraine if they do win militarily? It seems incredibly unlikely that they have enough troops and doesn’t seem remotely sustainable.
Actually it’s fairly easy, they can conduct Balkanization[0] They will find appropriate politicians or in some cases warlords for each region, in most cases they will fight among each other to gain power. This is not WW2 where you need a soldier to stand around every other corner, we’re much more sophisticated now. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkanization
Balkanization worked because former Jugoslavia actually consisted of multiple very different ethnic and religious groups.
Re: Francis Fukuyama: Preparing for Defeat
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can't imagine that Russia has planned to take over such a large country. It only makes sense if they only planned to bomb Ukraine into handing over Donetsk, Lukhansk, recognising the loss of Crimea, and agreeing not to join NATO. From this perspective, it's hard for Russia to loose. A destroyed Ukraine won't fight for their lost territories and won't be accepted into the EU or NATO.
Don’t believe that for a moment. Crimea and parts of Donetsk etc already under their control and a limited incursion could have gained more territory at low risk. Instead Russia faces huge economic penalties and stronger Ukraine-EU links are much more likely even if full membership doesn’t happen.
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