A short conversation with a bank • Hacker News Board

Re: A short conversation with a bank

#81

Post by lelandfe » Sat, Mar 12, 2022, 4:01 PM UTC

skybrian wrote: post #71

cantrevealname wrote: post #62

> with Gmail, where you were so aggressive about mining receipt data from Amazon that when I get a receipt from Amazon now it doesn’t actually include what I bought Wow, he's right. The item name no longer appears on emailed receipts I receive from Amazon as of about late 2019 or early 2020. I can't think of a plausible explanation for this change other than preventing Google from pilfering your detailed purchase his…

Another possibility is that email is sometimes unencrypted, email clients vary in how secure they are, and some regulation says they have to care about this because privacy. But who knows, making stuff up like you and I did isn't evidence. At best it gives you an idea of the range of possibilities.

There is precedent of weaponizing email data against the company sending the emails, though.[0] This definitely seems like a move that's in Amazon's best interest.

I have not heard about regulations like what you're describing.

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/24/technology/personal-data-...

Re: A short conversation with a bank

#82

Post by nym112358 » Sat, Mar 12, 2022, 4:01 PM UTC

pnutjam wrote: post #25

542458 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but my local hardware store is also trying to sell me stuff and is trying to charge as much as possible for it, yet I don’t have to jump through opaque and frustrating procedures and barely functional web systems to buy a 2x4. The author’s issue comes down to banks being apparently uninterested in attracting business by solving actual customer pain points. Instead of solving real problems (terrible UX around a…

Never had these problems with my CU (LMCU), and honestly Cap1 bank has been doing a pretty bang up job with my CC's. I'm considering trying them for banking.

Capital One CC and Capital One Bank (360) are completely different creatures, with a shared web interface. I've accumulated a bunch of experience with the major online banks, for my personal use as well as settling an estate. My "main account" is at Ally, but due to the possibilities of account lockout I still have accounts at all three in addition to a local CU (for cash withdrawals, notary/medallion stamps).

Discover customer service is fantastic, with friendly interactive humans. I feel bad that Discover is not my main bank - I was going that way until a binding arbitration clause (with unreasonably short opt-out period) derailed the relationship. Ally is adequate, with the "standard" humans emulating robots relying on a case system. They will promise to call/email you back but never will, so you have to poll. Capital One 360 is at or below Ally - I had a poor experience with them settling an IRA, but they're ending their IRA business so who knows.

Unfortunately the Discover web / app is the worst of the three (although they support OFX Direct Connect last time I checked). Ally and Cap1 are nice (although there are some things you cannot do through the Cap1 web interface until you find a hidden link to the old web interface, which is still partially active). One standout feature of Cap1 is that you can open a reasonable line of credit for overdraft protection, if you don't generally have enough cash sitting around in an adjacent savings account.

P.S. I tried Alliant CU but was not impressed by their web interface or the hoops required to login to the app. Customer service seemed okay. Maybe in a different life.

P.P.S. Ally Invest is a completely separate creature from Ally Bank. I've had two different horrendous experiences with Ally Invest, and urge everyone to steer clear. The reps sound like they know what they're talking about (holdovers from TradeKing I presume), but are completely disconnected from the back office's procedures or activities.

Re: A short conversation with a bank

#83

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Mar 12, 2022, 4:01 PM UTC

cantrevealname wrote: post #62

> with Gmail, where you were so aggressive about mining receipt data from Amazon that when I get a receipt from Amazon now it doesn’t actually include what I bought Wow, he's right. The item name no longer appears on emailed receipts I receive from Amazon as of about late 2019 or early 2020. I can't think of a plausible explanation for this change other than preventing Google from pilfering your detailed purchase his…

[deleted]

Re: A short conversation with a bank

#84

Post by reaperducer » Sat, Mar 12, 2022, 4:03 PM UTC

_fnqu wrote: post #54

cuu508 wrote: post #31

I've recently been going through my password manager and closing inactive accounts. 9 out of 10 websites don't have a "close account" function, you have to talk to the support. Unfortunately these conversations are often similar to the ones in the article. You get to talk to 5 different agents, you receive a confirmation your account is closed but your login credentials still work, eventually your login credentials b…

If it’s a service that is not blocked in the EU you can often send a GDPR request to have your data deleted. https://www.datarequests.org/generator/

If it’s a service that is not blocked in the EU you can often send a GDPR request to have your data deleted. https://www.datarequests.org/generator/

The sorts of companies that don't have an online mechanism to delete your account are the same kinds of companies that have never heard of, or don't care about the the GDPR.

Re: A short conversation with a bank

#85

Post by reaperducer » Sat, Mar 12, 2022, 4:06 PM UTC

crispyambulance wrote: post #50

Banks, of course, can be awful. However, if you can develop an in-person face-to-face rapport with someone at a bank, you'll find that they can bypass, sometimes, much of the infuriating petty bureaucracy. I once had a bank employee print almost a ream of statements on the spot for me. I was almost in tears from the generosity of their time and effort. This was after going to a different branch an being told it would…

Always ALWAYS _ALWAYS_ be nice to service people.

You never know when you might need them.

Also, ALWAYS be nice to janitors, maids, maintenance staff, front desk people, security guards, etc.

You should make anyone with access to a set of keys your friend.

Re: A short conversation with a bank

#86

Post by salawat » Sat, Mar 12, 2022, 4:07 PM UTC

monktastic1 wrote: post #22

A short conversation with Blue Shield of California last month: BS: Have a question? Ask us via this very useful secure messaging form! Me: Great! Can you explain the difference between these two arcane out-of-pocket limits that you display that are un-Googleable and nowhere in your documentation that I can never find anyway? BS: Sure! We will wait two days and then send you an email suggestively titled "a response t…

Oh wow. Blue Cross hosed that?

Max Out of Pocket: This is the yearly maximum accumulation that an insured individual must pay before the insurer takes on full financial responsibility for subsequent claims. This comes in generally one of two flavors: a family or individual.

The individual is straightforward. If you have a MOOP of $1000, and you've paid out $1000 in copays or coinsurance after meeting your deductible on just you, you no longer owe any contribution on claims for you, for that year. However, someone else in your family on your insurance will have to have their copays/coinsurance paid until either their individual MOOP is hit, or between the two of you you accunulate enough for the family MOOP to kick in, which depending on the nature of the plan, will start covering expenses for everyone else in the family unit.

Out_of_pocket_max is likely the individual MOOP. Max_out_of_pocket_max is probably a terribly named family or Group MOOP. These should not be confused with policy or lifetime maximums, which are caps to the amount of a specific benefit the insurer is willing to pay out for you as an individual period.

I know for a fact places screw that all up. I spend a large chunk of time making sure things like that do not stick around.

Re: A short conversation with a bank

#87

Post by reaperducer » Sat, Mar 12, 2022, 4:11 PM UTC

pnutjam wrote: post #25

542458 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but my local hardware store is also trying to sell me stuff and is trying to charge as much as possible for it, yet I don’t have to jump through opaque and frustrating procedures and barely functional web systems to buy a 2x4. The author’s issue comes down to banks being apparently uninterested in attracting business by solving actual customer pain points. Instead of solving real problems (terrible UX around a…

Never had these problems with my CU (LMCU), and honestly Cap1 bank has been doing a pretty bang up job with my CC's. I'm considering trying them for banking.

honestly Cap1 bank has been doing a pretty bang up job with my CC's

What a coincidence.

Last month, my wife called Cap1 to close two department store credit card accounts she hasn't used in years.

This morning, I'm doing the bills and in the letters are two from Cap1 welcoming her to her new department store credit cards, here are all the terms and rates, and here's your first bill for $0. Happy spending!

Re: A short conversation with a bank

#88

Post by salawat » Sat, Mar 12, 2022, 4:12 PM UTC

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #58

datavirtue wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I do those I just give glaring reviews so as to possibly relieve some small bit of human suffering.

If you agree to the survey, do you get bumped higher in the queue? I’ve always wondered.

Nope. You don't.

Re: A short conversation with a bank

#89

Post by djrockstar1 » Sat, Mar 12, 2022, 4:17 PM UTC

pwg wrote: post #69

limaoscarjuliet wrote: post #41

The electronic statements are a blessing - just download and keep a copy. Exactly same as with paper ones, but with fewer steps. All systems have their limits, but the current electronic ones are much better than the mortar and paper of yesteryear. I just finished renewing tags for my cars in 5 minutes from the comfort of my home, as compared to 2 hour Tag Office visit 20 years ago. (Happy bday to me!).

> Exactly same as with paper ones, but with fewer steps. Actually with more steps. Paper statements: Bank generates paper statement on appointed day (work/time input by bank) Bank packages paper statement in envelope and mails it (work/time input by bank) Postal service delivers paper statement to my mailbox (work/time input by postal service) I open paper statement (work/time input by me) I scan paper statement (wor…

On the bright side, now that you have step by step instructions for what needs to be done, you can hack together a script that will take you more time than doing that process manually would have for the rest of your life, but once you do you won't have to do it ever again.*

*unless the bank changes something about their email/website/pdf and that breaks the script

Re: A short conversation with a bank

#90

Post by monktastic1 » Sat, Mar 12, 2022, 4:18 PM UTC

salawat wrote: post #86

monktastic1 wrote: post #22

A short conversation with Blue Shield of California last month: BS: Have a question? Ask us via this very useful secure messaging form! Me: Great! Can you explain the difference between these two arcane out-of-pocket limits that you display that are un-Googleable and nowhere in your documentation that I can never find anyway? BS: Sure! We will wait two days and then send you an email suggestively titled "a response t…

Oh wow. Blue Cross hosed that? Max Out of Pocket: This is the yearly maximum accumulation that an insured individual must pay before the insurer takes on full financial responsibility for subsequent claims. This comes in generally one of two flavors: a family or individual. The individual is straightforward. If you have a MOOP of $1000, and you've paid out $1000 in copays or coinsurance after meeting your deductible…

https://imgur.com/a/t7M2RGv

When I called, I was told that it's there to show that the OOP max for in-network and out-of-network providers isn't summed to get my total OOP max; instead it's just equal to my OON OOP max. (Of course, this plan makes it hard to go bankrupt, unlike all ACA plans. That was a bit of literary liberty.)