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Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

reuters.com

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Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#661

Post by yosefjaved1 »

chmod600 wrote: post #651
danudey wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see the distinction here. In South Africa you could be a citizen regardless of your race, but how you were treated depended on your race; citizens were not equal. In Israel, they are trying to prevent people of a certain race from becoming citizens, but once you are a citizen, there are fewer 'official' racist policies even if a lot of the people you have to deal with are outwardly racist anyway. On paper, citizens…

In other words, it doesn't meet the definition of apartheid. You can make an analogy to apartheid. It's up to others to determine if the analogy fits the point you are making though.

There is an entire Wikipedia article going over this exact issue. It looks like people have been arguing about this analogy for awhile now.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_the_apartheid_ana...

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#662

Post by shephardjhon »

I am totally ready to read rational discussions that in no way is colored by hatered of either side or belonging to a particular religion or political beliefs or consperacy theories you have read about either side. I am also totally expecting everyone here on HN to be expert historians and masters of international relations.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#663

Post by sdoering »

Veen wrote: post #645
camel_Snake wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cherry-picking individual quotes or statements does not reflect the attitudes of global Muslims as a whole. I'll instead link to the following wiki article, which is long, but here's a particularly relevant excerpt. > Antisemitism has increased in the Muslim world during modern times. While Bernard Lewis and Uri Avnery date the increase in antisemitism to the establishment of Israel, M. Klein suggests that antisemiti…

That’s not what cherry-picking means. The previous comment made a claim. I gave a what I considered a valid counter example undermining that claim. That’s an entirely reasonable response. Somewhat ironically, that Wikipedia article is cherry picking. It gives lots of examples that support its thesis and fails to mention or downplays counter examples, of which there are very many.

Of which you - contrary to the other commenter in the thread - failed to provide sources of.

You cherry pick one example and talk about there being many, many more. Yet it is the other side shows sources that you with few words "argue" are not valid - also without providing arguments, sources, anything.

You are not discussing in good faith.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#664

Post by veltas »

shephardjhon wrote: post #662

I am totally ready to read rational discussions that in no way is colored by hatered of either side or belonging to a particular religion or political beliefs or consperacy theories you have read about either side. I am also totally expecting everyone here on HN to be expert historians and masters of international relations.

This post was #1 on hacker news yesterday for a bit, flagged, and now it's been unflagged many hours later. I wonder what's going on there. I didn't have to go "read" about a 'consperacy' online for that, I just saw weird stuff happening right here on this site.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#666

Post by hutzlibu »

this2shallPass wrote: post #657
hutzlibu wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure, where you draw that conclusion from, but yes that would be correct. Because the jewish religious law (which many jews have to follow to peer pressure, even if they are not religious by themself) explicitely forbids marrying non jews and no one can convert to the jewish religion. Muslims on the other hand can marry non muslims, but are supposed to convert them. So this is indeed way more comon.

> no one can convert to the jewish religion Citation needed / this is not correct. It isn't easy, but it is perfectly kosher. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_to_Judaism

Ok, it seems I have been wrong about this as a general statement and liberal (or even most?) jew movements indeed consider it possible.

Last time I checked - it seems I read a viewpoint from a rather orthodox rabbi (but his article was the first one, that showed up in google at that time, now I cannot find it anymore), which clearly stated, this is not possible at all, with no exception.

The only way, would be to recognized as a "lost jew", meaning being of jewish origin, who lost connection to the tribe (even some generations ago). And the recognition would need years of devotion.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#668

Post by idop »

SpelingBeeChamp wrote: post #654
idop wrote: post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minority groups in Israel actually have less restrictions with regards to marriage than the majority. Minority groups have freedom of religion. I'm a jew by ethnicity but an atheist by religion. I do not have freedom of religion. If I wanted to get married, by law, I am forced to get approval from the Jewish Rabbinate and follow religious protocols that make my skin crawl. And my spouse must be Jewish too.

Not really. You could do what thousands of others do any take a quick trip to Cyprus, get married (regardless of your partner’s religion or sex), and have the marriage civilly recognized in Israel.

Gee, thanks.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#669

Post by Siira »

tut-urut-utut wrote: post #534
pthread_t wrote: post #39

So, 21% of Israel's population has restrictions on who they could marry all so that they can maintain a majority of the favored demographic. This is apartheid.

Don't people actually marry because they love each other, and not as a way to gain a favourable citizenship? How the naturalization law prevents a marriage?

It’s immaterial to the purposes of this law. They don’t care why it’s done.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#670

Post by Siira »

camel_Snake wrote: post #505
twofornone wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel is surrounded by Arab Muslims who outnumber Jews 100:1 and are overtly hostile to Judaism, as prescribed by their religion. I ask honestly, is it really so wrong for a nation to implement laws to preserve its culture, particularly when it's people constitute a tiny fraction of the global population? Or is support of cultural preservation only virtuous when the alternative is labeled "gentrification"?

> and are overtly hostile to Judaism, as prescribed by their religion As a biracial Jew from Pakistan I can assure you this is false. The modern enmity between Jews and Muslims began around the time of Israel's creation [1]. As far as 'preserving culture', this sounds a little to close to the Fourteen Words for my comfort. You can celebrate and keep alive one's own culture without the exclusion and denial of rights t…

My state-mandated history textbooks disagree.
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