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Inspecting Web Views in macOS

blog.jim-nielsen.com

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Re: Inspecting Web Views in macOS

#41
post #35
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect these additional reasons can largely be summed up as "I already know it from using it in the browser, so let's use that"

You'd probably be wrong! Let me introduce you to https://github.com/ocornut/imgui

Which doesn't use React, CSS, or a DOM...? What's your point? ImGUI is imperative UI programming. DOMs are declarative.

Re: Inspecting Web Views in macOS

#42

Quick. Hide the evidence so the ATP purists can still insist on ideological purity and in the one true belief that the only way to write Mac Applications is to do everything in Swift or Objective-C. After all, If Apple does it....

Nothing wrong with it per se. But the developers choosing tech like Electron usually do it because it's low-effort cross-platform. With the emphasis on low-effort.

It means they're not really willing to put in the work to make it run well. They just want to cobble something together and get it out there. There's really well-performing Electron apps, like VS Code. But the very same company also produces extreme turds, like MS Teams. This app is extremely unresponsive, takes about 30 seconds to sometimes even a minute to start up on a clean M1 Mac, and often crashes or just hangs. It's really horrible. And unfortunately the app I need the most for work.

These are the apps that give these cross-platform web technologies a bad name. I understand why now that I have to struggle with this crap every day. With slack I just minded the UI not really fitting in but it performed just fine so I didn't hate the tech so much.

Re: Inspecting Web Views in macOS

#43

Quick. Hide the evidence so the ATP purists can still insist on ideological purity and in the one true belief that the only way to write Mac Applications is to do everything in Swift or Objective-C. After all, If Apple does it....

Note all the comments here about how that part of the UI is broken in so many ways.

Re: Inspecting Web Views in macOS

#44
post #30

OK interesting - but why?

React is enjoyable to use?

As a web developer that primarily codes in React for the last 5 years, I strongly disagree. I use it because of the ecosystem and I think everyone does. It's not that fast, and it's quite verbose.

That's besides the point though, because I doubt Apple chose React because they "enjoyed" it here.

I like web tech but I also think it's not worth it for this use case (even if it is shared with the web). What naturally happens is you start asking "well if we did it for that, why not for this?" Sooner or later it invades the system.

I've worked on desktop apps where the same thing happened where webviews were not truly needed.

I don't have a hate for it in general, but Apple was extremely strong in native UI so I would have liked to see them try to stick to that, even if it meant coding it twice.

Re: Inspecting Web Views in macOS

#45

That explains how looking at your iCloud preferences are near the most unreliable and slow part of settings. Even more so the Apple engineers never consider someone could live outside the US.

I've always wondered why these panes in particular felt like total garbage in comparison to the rest of System Preferences. Now I know!

Re: Inspecting Web Views in macOS

#46
post #10

Wow. I always thought the argument in favor of using web technologies on the desktop was that cross-platform became easier. And yet here is an example of the most unambiguously single-platform app I can possibly imagine, and under the hood it uses web - and React of all things! Crazy.

They probably gave the icloud team, a team largely made up of web developers, full authority over that system preference pane. Their experience is in react, they chose react; makes a lot of sense. Even more so if the data here is used by similar pages on the web version of icloud.

Re: Inspecting Web Views in macOS

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't quote me on this, but I believe that Apple Music (nee iTunes) has used web views for a long time; probably over a decade. The entire thing probably isn't a web view, but my recollection is that the store components were.

Unsurprisingly the App Store is another example.

I remember giving up on my Hackintosh install after the App Store started rendering without CSS, breaking update functionality. Always thought that to be a weird failure mode for a system application.

Re: Inspecting Web Views in macOS

#48
post #31
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As it turns out, React / CSS / the document-object-model are popular for more reasons than “it works on different computers.” Who knew!

I expect these additional reasons can largely be summed up as "I already know it from using it in the browser, so let's use that"

I think it’s a little unfair that you’ve been so downvoted (at the time of writing), because the old phrase about hammers and nails is super applicable to software development, and the icloud team may very well know react better than cocoa.
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