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Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

reuters.com

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Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#631

Post by frank_sausage »

windowshopping wrote: post #409
frank_sausage wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arabs are not "brown". GJ on unintentional racism

I don't see the profit in trying to catch them on a small and clearly not meaningful technicality in their phrasing. Genuine question, do you truly feel the commenter is a racist, and you just stepped in and called them out successfully? What seems much more likely is that they, in their sarcasm, were doing an imitation of an ignorant conservative stereotype by focusing on skin color and grouping all middle easterner…

I tried to explain why I decided to call out the use of that phrase, however my words failed me. So I’m editing my original (and inadequate) explanation to just say that the “brown people” thing is, to me, indicative of a deeper societal issue with racism and otherizing people that exists on both sides of the political spectrum.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#632

Post by lm28469 »

sgregnt wrote: post #605
lm28469 wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> laws that are blatantly discriminatory. It's Israel, who's surprised. > Israel is slowly losing its support in the free democratic world where people believe in the inalienable universal rights of individuals and are less and less willing to turn a blind eye to such institutionalized racism. If using tanks against children throwing rocks or white phosphorus bombs over civilians didn't do it I doubt anything will. I…

I think it is not so much as Israel has discrimination, but about the region. By comparison to PA or other Arab countries there is very little discrimination in Israel. If the whole region is set on a path for pluralism that would also solve the problem in Israel.

> I think it is not so much as Israel has discrimination

It's one of the most discriminatory non third world country, if not the most. You literally have citizen of the same country treated differently depending on their last name and/or their religion, and worst than that, they don't even have the same rights.

It's not some "soft" racism like in the US where, in theory, everyone is equal in term of rights and in front of the justice, in Israel you have laws that only applies to non jewish people, they're not even trying to pretend, it's institutionalized and a source of pride

Israel/Palestine is similar to what's going on in Ukraine right now in many aspects but everyone seems to ignore that. It's just further away, happening slower and is committed by an historic ally.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/north-africa-west-asia/isra...

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/31/17623978/israel-jewish-n...

https://imeu.org/article/fact-sheet-palestinian-citizens-of-...

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#633

Post by idop »

pthread_t wrote: post #39

So, 21% of Israel's population has restrictions on who they could marry all so that they can maintain a majority of the favored demographic. This is apartheid.

Minority groups in Israel actually have less restrictions with regards to marriage than the majority. Minority groups have freedom of religion. I'm a jew by ethnicity but an atheist by religion. I do not have freedom of religion. If I wanted to get married, by law, I am forced to get approval from the Jewish Rabbinate and follow religious protocols that make my skin crawl. And my spouse must be Jewish too.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#634

Post by idop »

ausbah wrote: post #81

>Some Knesset members said it was intended to prevent a gradual right of return for Palestinian refugees who were driven from their homes or fled during the 1948 war surrounding Israel's creation absolutely disgusting

Who said that? Why are these "some Knesset members" not named? Is this an actual explanation provided by proponents of the law, or hyperbole said by the opponents (e.g. Arab parties)? Or bullshit invented by the jounalist?

Don't be disgusted by unsubstantiated claims.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#635

Post by MauroIksem »

chmod600 wrote: post #369
docdeek wrote: post #84

This article doesn’t really provide much in the way of explanation for why this law is being enacted. Here [0] is a better article that quotes supporters and objectors to the law. It includes the (IMHO not very convincing) figures that "Between 1993 and 2003, around 130,000 Palestinians were given Israeli citizenship or residency through family unification, including children, according to court filings. The Shin Bet…

From your source: "Israeli politicians say the law is both an essential security measure to prevent Palestinian terror attacks and a means of preserving a Jewish majority in Israel." Maybe it's more of an immigration policy than a security policy?

Emigrating into your own country. That's a new one. Opinions here are laughable.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#636

Post by dundarious »

e-neko wrote: post #626
dundarious wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, but those figures weren't what I was asking about -- I do believe in their accuracy, and used a similar breakdown when writing my comment. I meant regarding the following: > [Arab Israeli citizens owning private land] apply similar restriction on any Jewish family trying to settle in a predominantly Arab town or village. A similar restriction doesn't apply to predominantly Jewish towns, only to small communit…

The reason I make a distinction between towns and small villages is because Israeli laws only allow committee-based exclusion in small villages. Grow to the size of a town and anyone can move in (buying via third party if one is afraid of discrimination, if necessary). It would only face "petty discrimination" if it moves into a radical religious neighbourhood, but then the same would happen to a non-religious Jewish…

Well I think there are ample cases that are in conflict with the idea that "anyone can move" into any Jewish neighborhood in larger towns and cities, and then you have groups like Elad in Jerusalem on top of that. https://archive.ph/20180614062757/https://www.haaretz.com/is...

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#637

Post by lanterk »

poisonarena wrote: post #619
tyingq wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That a 0.37% (or more) slice of some population that feels it's been oppressed and impoverished might engage in /(freedom fighter|terrorist)/ activities doesn't seem surprising to me.

Quoted post unavailable.

Did you also blame white people after Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people? Or when Stephen Paddock killed 61 people?

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#638

Post by idop »

lozenge wrote: post #539
borski wrote: post #497

Just to be clear: the law bans citizenship for Palestinians on the basis of marriage to an Israeli citizen, but does not ban marriages or naturalization in other ways that aren’t marriage, right? Or am I missing something here?

All weddings are Jewish in Israel so that would already prevent a Palestinian from marrying an Israeli. They can however marry in another country and Israel would recognise the marriage.

Uh, no. Non-Jewish citizens are not required to have a Jewish wedding. Jewish citizens are.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#639

Post by breakyerself »

OOPMan wrote: post #594
vkou wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a policy of apartheid, which is motivated by both immigration and security. Fortunately, as we have learned over the past few weeks, sanctions are an effective means of pushback against archaic 20-th century statesmanship.

As someone born and raised in South Africa that lived there until the end of 2019 I really wish people would stop comparing Israel to the old government in ZA. The Israeli government definitely does a ton of problematic stuff that is objectively awful but it's just not quite the same as what the old government in my country used to do. I am sure I will get downvoted for this, but the situation with Israel/Palestine i…

Apartheid doesn't mean "Identical to South Africa". Apartheid is a crime against human rights defined as such:

Apartheid refers to the implementation and maintenance of a system of legalized racial segregation in which one racial group is deprived of political and civil rights. Apartheid is a crime against humanity punishable under the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court. ACADEMIC TOPICS. legal history.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#640

Post by e-neko »

dundarious wrote: post #636
e-neko wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason I make a distinction between towns and small villages is because Israeli laws only allow committee-based exclusion in small villages. Grow to the size of a town and anyone can move in (buying via third party if one is afraid of discrimination, if necessary). It would only face "petty discrimination" if it moves into a radical religious neighbourhood, but then the same would happen to a non-religious Jewish…

Well I think there are ample cases that are in conflict with the idea that "anyone can move" into any Jewish neighborhood in larger towns and cities, and then you have groups like Elad in Jerusalem on top of that. https://archive.ph/20180614062757/https://www.haaretz.com/is...

This case in Afula actually contradicts your point, as Israeli authorities upheld the sale.

http://web.archive.org/web/20210214010143/https://www.haaret...

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