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Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

reuters.com

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Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#621

Post by LorenPechtel »

jonathan-adly wrote: post #60

This is how the Middle East works by the way. Interreligious marriages are a very big deal and banned in every single Middle Eastern country. The good countries will refuse to issue a marriage license to you, the bad countries will send the police to watch as a mob lynches you. If you see Israel as some kind of psuedo-western state, then yea, you should be shocked. But as a Middle Eastern country, this is just anothe…

Actually, it's not quite that. Israel doesn't issue marriage licenses in the first place--they leave marriage up to the various religions. A Jew can't marry a Muslim in Israel because neither of their faiths will permit it.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#622

Post by skrtskrt »

chmod600 wrote: post #601
bradlys wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is the West planning to use it as a launchpad for a war of aggression in the region? Pretty sure this was the reason. It’s a tactical piece that they want to keep control over. Everyone else in the region hates them (and rightfully so).

I'm not sure quite what you mean by "rightfully hates them" but it sounds pretty scary to me.

they mean the west has systematically overthrown governments, strip-mined the natural resources, drawn arbitrary country borders, funded extremist groups, bombed civilian populations, gone to war because the extremists they originally backed got too strong, etc etc in the Middle East for generations

then if all else fails, they do sanctions, which of course NEVER affect the ruling class, they merely provide the rulers a tool to point more hatred at the west - you think it's the ruling class that can't get diabetes medication due to sanctions? No of course not, it's the average person.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#623

Post by bawolff »

msrenee wrote: post #598
bawolff wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm, that's basically the definition of terrorism. 9/11 didn't happen out of the blue, it was a response to american foreign policy in the middle east. The troubles didn't happen because the IRA thought British rule was legitimate Etc. The vast majority of terrorism is because one group is controlling a region that the other group thinks they should not.

I see what you mean. I never thought about it that way. It kind of just depends what side you're on whether it immediately leaps out as terrorism.

Yeah, typically if you agree with them they are "freedom fighters" if you don't they're "terrorists".

In my opinion, most long running conflicts tend to have both sides doing terrible things over the course of the conflict, so its rare there is one side that is "good" and one that is "evil".

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#624

Post by tyingq »

poisonarena wrote: post #619
tyingq wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That a 0.37% (or more) slice of some population that feels it's been oppressed and impoverished might engage in /(freedom fighter|terrorist)/ activities doesn't seem surprising to me.

Quoted post unavailable.

I don't think any single example makes a case that every terrorist is a terrorist or that every freedom fighter is a freedom fighter.

A single black and white case doesn't mean other cases don't involve nuance, or depend on your perspective.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#625

Post by mahkeiro »

sgregnt wrote: post #604
shmatt wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel always had laws favoring jews over non-jews. It would seem shocking but its been like that since day 1. Even now with white blue-eyed christian Ukrainians flooding Israel, they are being left in the airport for days, and interrogated to see who had a Jewish great grandfather and who did not. If you did - thats a free ticket in. If not? Wait a few more days, we might take you in if you put up collateral cash (a…

There are other western countries with very strict immigration policies. I think this applies to Switzerland and to Japan, for example.

No it doesn't apply to Switzerland where 32% of the population are foreigner…

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#626

Post by e-neko »

dundarious wrote: post #620
e-neko wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

References, because of course nobody believes it. >Currently, in Israel “proper” (within the Green Line), only 7 percent of the land is owned privately by individuals (3 percent Jews and 4 percent Arabs). According to the Israeli NGO Regavim, the rest is owned by the Jewish state (80 percent) and the Jewish National Fund (13 percent) https://jewishjournal.com/commentary/opinion/marty_kaplan/12...

Thanks, but those figures weren't what I was asking about -- I do believe in their accuracy, and used a similar breakdown when writing my comment. I meant regarding the following: > [Arab Israeli citizens owning private land] apply similar restriction on any Jewish family trying to settle in a predominantly Arab town or village. A similar restriction doesn't apply to predominantly Jewish towns, only to small communit…

The reason I make a distinction between towns and small villages is because Israeli laws only allow committee-based exclusion in small villages. Grow to the size of a town and anyone can move in (buying via third party if one is afraid of discrimination, if necessary). It would only face "petty discrimination" if it moves into a radical religious neighbourhood, but then the same would happen to a non-religious Jewish family.

However, if a Jewish family tries to move into a predominantly Arab town, it will be pushed out even if legally there is no exclusion. Yes, by illegal means if necessary. The petty discrimination levels are different in those two cases.

Regardless of the above, the majority of Israeli population (92%) lives in large cities, where every citizen can buy an apartment, and in most cases the construction companies are not allowed to discriminate at all.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#627

Post by [deleted] »

dundarious wrote: post #580
amscanne wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you be specific? I’m reasonably sure this isn’t true. The only difference in how non-Jewish Israeli citizens are treated that I’m aware of is that non-Jewish citizens are exempt from conscription. I’m always open to learning more, however. Otherwise, you seem to be talking about special legal carve-outs related to contested territories for restrictions on movement. The claim that non-Jewish Israel citizens are no…

I replied in another similar thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30644087 As for my framing and the question of "live" vs. "confer residency rights", I tried to be clear and say that my argument was about what restrictions are in place "in practice" and in the aggregate. If it is difficult for normal family formation and existence, and if that difficulty is for "demographic reasons", then that is discriminat…

[deleted]

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#628

Post by zardo »

sgregnt wrote: post #604
shmatt wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel always had laws favoring jews over non-jews. It would seem shocking but its been like that since day 1. Even now with white blue-eyed christian Ukrainians flooding Israel, they are being left in the airport for days, and interrogated to see who had a Jewish great grandfather and who did not. If you did - thats a free ticket in. If not? Wait a few more days, we might take you in if you put up collateral cash (a…

There are other western countries with very strict immigration policies. I think this applies to Switzerland and to Japan, for example.

Isn't Israel a 'Middle Eastern' countr, and Japan 'Eastern'

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#629

Post by sarchertech »

DecentAI wrote: post #487
sarchertech wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also many Arabic speaking Christians who don’t consider themselves to be Arabs culturally, and who definitely reject the label “Arab”.

They can choose to label themselves however they see fit, however under the guise of israeli law they are no different and are treated the same way as "Arab muslims" which speaks to the enormity of the racist jewish laws.

Most of the people I’m referring to aren’t in Israel, so Israeli law isn’t really relevant.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#630

Post by idop »

BuyMyBitcoins wrote: post #306
dotancohen wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> anyone who believes in what you’ve quoted is soundly dismissed as a paranoid conspiracy theorist - a racist one at that The fine article mentions explicitly that this is the goal of the marriages in question.

This fine article also says “It comes off as more xenophobic or racist (than other laws) because it’s not only giving extra rights and privileges to Jewish people, but also preventing certain basic rights only from the Arab population”. People are opposed to it because it 1) codifies that an Israeli citizen’s race is an acceptable criterion for determining which rights they are entitled to, and 2) the law is a reacti…

This is nothing new. Israeli law distinguishes between different religion groups and has done so since the formation of the country. Israeli Arabs, for example, are not forced to serve in the military. So are the Haredim (i.e. the strict Jewish sect). I'm part of the majority in Israel, but in many ways, I am getting screwed over more than other groups. In other ways, they get screwed over more than me.
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