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Ukraine says Russia fired at Belarus from Ukrainian airspace to drag it into war

reuters.com

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Re: Ukraine says Russia fired at Belarus from Ukrainian airspace to drag it into war

#21
post #12

Quoted post unavailable.

I wonder if people downvoting you realize you basically just stated a fact. It’s possible to support Ukraine while making room for the truth that there is propaganda in both directions.

Well, P(ukraine blames russia | russia did it) = P(ukraine blames russia | ukraine did it) = 1. But P(ukraine blames russia | nobody did anything) This particular piece of information might not inform whether Ukraine or Russia did it, but that doesn't mean the likelihood of the two events are equal. There are other pieces of information out there.

Re: Ukraine says Russia fired at Belarus from Ukrainian airspace to drag it into war

#22
post #6

Last year Lukashenko (Belarus president) forced a plane flying over Belarus (from Greece to Lithuania) to land there to arrest a dissident who was criticizing him on board. Outraged EU imposed sanctions on Belarus, who was forced then to turn to Russia for support. Now Russia is calling the favor back and forcing him to send troops to Ukraine, which he doesn't want, both because it's a very unpopular move in Belarus,…

Lukashenko has been flirting with Russia all his life. He has no popular support, and the only thing keeping him in office all these years was his eastern neighbour. For a long time now, sanctions or no sanctions, his raison d’être has been being Putin’s puppet, and now he is called to the blackboard. Indeed he seems to have no enthusiasm for it, and has been trying to pull on his leash for years, but whenever push c…

This video of Lukashenko complaining in an interview that Putin had promised to make him a colonel in the Russian army is pretty strange. The interviewer can't stop laughing and Lukashenko starts getting upset:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JNtiO7nhmo

Re: Ukraine says Russia fired at Belarus from Ukrainian airspace to drag it into war

#23
post #12

Quoted post unavailable.

I wonder if people downvoting you realize you basically just stated a fact. It’s possible to support Ukraine while making room for the truth that there is propaganda in both directions.

> while making room for the truth that there is propaganda in both directions.

Both my comments in this comment section are flagged, so I guess there is no room for that.

Re: Ukraine says Russia fired at Belarus from Ukrainian airspace to drag it into war

#24
I wouldn't be surprised if Lukaschenko would instead attack Russia in exchange for a complete lift of western sanctions. He simply is that kind of a guy who stabs you into the back at the first possible occasion. There is a reason that he managed to stay in power for even longer than Putin.

Re: Ukraine says Russia fired at Belarus from Ukrainian airspace to drag it into war

#26
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is anecdata. I know many Russians and zero of them approve of the current war. This includes the Russians living in Donetsk who had a lot of anger towards the Ukraininan government previously.

If you go on Russian social media sites, there's an interesting phenomenon of many of them obviously disliking Putin while buying his propaganda wholesale about the West and Ukraine's Nazi government

I feel like this comment kinda describes the west perfectly too.

Re: Ukraine says Russia fired at Belarus from Ukrainian airspace to drag it into war

#27
There are doubts as to who's side most Belarus troops would be on. There are already some in Ukraine fighting against the Russians https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10581717/Belarusian...

See also "Defections and resignations in Belarusian military prevented country from joining Ukraine invasion'" https://www.israelhayom.com/2022/03/07/defections-and-resign...

Re: Ukraine says Russia fired at Belarus from Ukrainian airspace to drag it into war

#28
post #25

False flag or not, I hate whoever does this. Dammit, if you want to restore USSR territory, at least do it without casualties!

> False flag or not, I hate whoever does this. Dammit, if you want to restore USSR territory, at least do it without casualties!

That's...not how conquering your independent neighbors works.

Re: Ukraine says Russia fired at Belarus from Ukrainian airspace to drag it into war

#29
Fog of war is at its thickest right now. Honestly I have no idea what to believe anymore.

I've heard about a million "Russia plans to do X false flag operation" announcements in the last couple of weeks, all of which would be largely to the detriment of Russia, both in terms of causing it damage directly, as well as by giving ample provocation to its enemies (and even its 'friends') to justify any retaliation thinkable under the sun. And then I've seen posts showing victims in certain popular photos were paid actors. At this point it would be simpler for Ukraine to promote these stories and then go do them themselves. But then again, maybe that's the narrative Russia hopes to rely on, so they're promoting these stories themselves as some sort of "double bluff"? Except, the narrative isn't really important because nobody in the west has access to it anyway, and if anything people are being told that Russia sucks and can't even do a "single bluff" properly in the first place? Unless that's a triple bluff? Who knows. This is starting to have more levels of recursion than "Inception".

It reminds me a bit of that old joke. There's an attractive woman sitting in a train cabin. Next to her is a Russian man, and opposite both of them sits an American man (arbitrary nationalities chosen for the joke). Suddenly the train goes through a dark tunnel. In the middle of the darkness, a loud "slap" is heard. As the train comes out of the tunnel, the woman is surprised to see the American in front of her holding his cheek in pain, with a visible slap-mark. The woman thinks "What probably happened was that that filthy American tried to fondle me as we went through the tunnel, and must have fondled the Russian guy instead by accident, so he slapped him". The American thinks, "That filthy Russian must have tried to fondle the poor girl from the side as we went through the tunnel, and she must have thought it was me from the front instead, and slapped me". The Russian thinks "That was awesome. I can't wait for the next tunnel!"

Re: Ukraine says Russia fired at Belarus from Ukrainian airspace to drag it into war

#30
post #24

I wouldn't be surprised if Lukaschenko would instead attack Russia in exchange for a complete lift of western sanctions. He simply is that kind of a guy who stabs you into the back at the first possible occasion. There is a reason that he managed to stay in power for even longer than Putin.

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