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No hello – please don't just say hello in chat

nohello.net

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Re: No hello – please don't just say hello in chat

#31

Post by pas »

unfocussed_mike wrote: post #24
pas wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> forwarding this to any internal mailing lists: don't. why? it's a request. clear and simple. if someone doesn't want to care, not the end of the world.

Forwarding that link to a mailing list will damage people's perceptions of you and ultimately kick-start a company-wide discussion on tone of communication that will ultimately result in someone writing a Damore Memo. (I am only half-joking) Accept that people are awkward, different and diverse and that we benefit from that too. And then don't forward it. I once wrote an email to an internal email list about the lack…

but part of that awkwardness is that some people send these to internal lists :)

you already bought the more forks, and it's okay to send a message to folks that now it's someone else's turn. will they listen? like you experienced, usually no. but it's not like their entitlement that their thing is more important than others' so they can take the forks is perfectly okay, even if it's the reality that we deal with. (and usually the effective way to deal with it is to bring your own fork, or have dedicated catering, or whatnot, leaving it to the community unsurprisingly usually doesn't work in a workplace.)

Re: No hello – please don't just say hello in chat

#32

Post by unfocussed_mike »

pas wrote: post #31
unfocussed_mike wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forwarding that link to a mailing list will damage people's perceptions of you and ultimately kick-start a company-wide discussion on tone of communication that will ultimately result in someone writing a Damore Memo. (I am only half-joking) Accept that people are awkward, different and diverse and that we benefit from that too. And then don't forward it. I once wrote an email to an internal email list about the lack…

but part of that awkwardness is that some people send these to internal lists :) you already bought the more forks, and it's okay to send a message to folks that now it's someone else's turn. will they listen? like you experienced, usually no. but it's not like their entitlement that their thing is more important than others' so they can take the forks is perfectly okay, even if it's the reality that we deal with. (a…

What I am saying is, don't get into the habit of making requests like this that make you look smaller.

Forks are inexpensive.

Here, I suggest that it is probably better for office harmony and one's career to do the inexpensive thing rather than burdening other people with dealing with your lack of tolerance for doing the inexpensive thing.

Being a little rude like this won't ever blow back on you in ways that you can directly measure. But it will blow back.

The forks email went to a departmental email list archive that happened to be open to the internet (this was 1996). You could find the forks email against my name in early search engines.

These days I understand that all of those people who got a bit snippy with me were right. And that even if I tend to forget the forks thing until topics like this come up, maybe they don't. Maybe they wander this world with a mental image of me being easily perturbed about forks.

That's what I mean. Buy more forks.

Re: No hello – please don't just say hello in chat

#33

Post by OrderlyTiamat »

ghusto wrote: post #6

Meh, it's an age thing too. I'm older and daresay I find it _incredibly_ more annoying when people type out a single message over many individual messages (line, enter send, line, enter send, ... etc.) When it's particularly bad, I actually hit the DND button on my Mac and go about other business until I think they've finished. Bear in mind you're effectively tapping me on the shoulder to stop what I'm doing with eve…

That's much worse. But it's the same problem, no? People should just write the damn message and don't drag it out, then we'll all be happy.

Re: No hello – please don't just say hello in chat

#34

Post by jader201 »

pas wrote: post #26
svet_0 wrote: post #13

I very much agree with nohello, but using it as your status message on slack/teams/etc. is taking it too far and doesn't make me want to talk to you unless I absolutely have to. Maybe it's just me though.

they are upfront about their preference, what's wrong with that? why is this too far? :o

What if I like just saying “Hello” up front for reasons I find just as valid as the reasons you don’t like “Hello”?

(For the record, I don’t — I agree with “No hello”.)

But being “upfront about your preference” is basically saying my preference trumps your preference.

And to the OPs point, it makes me hesitate to even engage in the first place.

I have people that communicate with me in ways that I don’t communicate with others, and even if it can sometimes be annoying, that’s more my problem than it is theirs.

Having said that, I think generally discussing the pros/cons of communication can be fine and helps bring to light things others may not have thought about.

I’m just not sure I would be quick to engage with someone that goes out of their way to tell me how I should communicate with them.

Re: No hello – please don't just say hello in chat

#35

Post by pas »

svet_0 wrote: post #30
pas wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they are upfront about their preference, what's wrong with that? why is this too far? :o

A bit passive aggressive and snobbish when collaboration is already difficult, even when co-workers are welcoming and engaging.

um, I don't find it passive at all. I don't do this, nor have I saw this, but if someone really has negative experiences with others and decides to put this into their status, that is pretty much the opposite of passive aggressive behavior, it seems to me like basic assertive communication (state your preference, talk about what you want/need)

Re: No hello – please don't just say hello in chat

#36

Post by OrderlyTiamat »

unfocussed_mike wrote: post #32
pas wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but part of that awkwardness is that some people send these to internal lists :) you already bought the more forks, and it's okay to send a message to folks that now it's someone else's turn. will they listen? like you experienced, usually no. but it's not like their entitlement that their thing is more important than others' so they can take the forks is perfectly okay, even if it's the reality that we deal with. (a…

What I am saying is, don't get into the habit of making requests like this that make you look smaller. Forks are inexpensive. Here, I suggest that it is probably better for office harmony and one's career to do the inexpensive thing rather than burdening other people with dealing with your lack of tolerance for doing the inexpensive thing. Being a little rude like this won't ever blow back on you in ways that you can…

I like this, I'll strive to buy more forks.

> Being a little rude like this won't ever blow back on you in ways that you can directly measure. But it will blow back. I do want to comment that I consider the just saying hello messages to be rude, itself. It's a balance isn't it, I don't want to be rude to others (buy more forks), but I also don't want people to be rude to me. So depending on the situation I might comment on that, but probably not with a link to a website like this, unless I think I can manage it with a humorous tone.

Re: No hello – please don't just say hello in chat

#37

Post by ghusto »

OrderlyTiamat wrote: post #33
ghusto wrote: post #6

Meh, it's an age thing too. I'm older and daresay I find it _incredibly_ more annoying when people type out a single message over many individual messages (line, enter send, line, enter send, ... etc.) When it's particularly bad, I actually hit the DND button on my Mac and go about other business until I think they've finished. Bear in mind you're effectively tapping me on the shoulder to stop what I'm doing with eve…

That's much worse. But it's the same problem, no? People should just write the damn message and don't drag it out, then we'll all be happy.

Err, actually yes, I didn't realise but it is :)

While we're all venting: How's about when you're writing a considerate reply that takes a while because it's a complicated answer, and they just blooming fire off another random message in the middle, destroying thread chronology!

Re: No hello – please don't just say hello in chat

#38

Post by pas »

unfocussed_mike wrote: post #32
pas wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but part of that awkwardness is that some people send these to internal lists :) you already bought the more forks, and it's okay to send a message to folks that now it's someone else's turn. will they listen? like you experienced, usually no. but it's not like their entitlement that their thing is more important than others' so they can take the forks is perfectly okay, even if it's the reality that we deal with. (a…

What I am saying is, don't get into the habit of making requests like this that make you look smaller. Forks are inexpensive. Here, I suggest that it is probably better for office harmony and one's career to do the inexpensive thing rather than burdening other people with dealing with your lack of tolerance for doing the inexpensive thing. Being a little rude like this won't ever blow back on you in ways that you can…

it's not rudeness. (I assume the rules about workplace kitchenware is that everyone has to return them, etc.)

sure, I completely see your point. I am the buy more fork guy in almost all of my social circles. like you said, it's just inexpensive, easy, etc.

but that doesn't necessarily works for attention. it's pretty scarce, so if someone feels they are really bothered by these hellos, then stating their preference up front seems okay to me.

career advancement is important, but the recruiter won't care, the interviewer won't care, and your next team also won't care about what happened on the internal lists at the previous workplace. (even if it's the first hit for your name in Google)

Re: No hello – please don't just say hello in chat

#39

Post by stjohnswarts »

pas wrote: post #29
dghlsakjg wrote: post #12

I think there's a dichotomy of people here. I'm one of the ones that minds because it can disrupt my work. I realize that sometimes interruptions are necessary but I want it to be efficient. So get to the point already Then there are the people that don't mind the interruption and sense of suspense. A "hi" feels to me like someone has just come up and poked me, but is just staring at me waiting to respond. Over chat…

if someone really wants something they can call :) disable desktop notifications and sounds and when you are finished with something switch to slack to see who wrote what doesn't this work?

I treat slack like email to be honest and my team knows it. I'll get to you when I get to you, if you need me immediately then call me on the desk phone or cell, they still work y'all

Re: No hello – please don't just say hello in chat

#40

Post by pas »

jader201 wrote: post #34
pas wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they are upfront about their preference, what's wrong with that? why is this too far? :o

What if I like just saying “Hello” up front for reasons I find just as valid as the reasons you don’t like “Hello”? (For the record, I don’t — I agree with “No hello”.) But being “upfront about your preference” is basically saying my preference trumps your preference. And to the OPs point, it makes me hesitate to even engage in the first place. I have people that communicate with me in ways that I don’t communicate w…

there's nothing wrong with that. there are valid reasons to say just hello. but if someone asks me to not I can do them the favor to consider my reasons and their preference.

preferences can't trump each other. it's simply information that helps communication.

and if someone just says hi and the other party gets mad for not respecting their preference, that's a different thing. that's their inflexibility and arrogance for thinking that people need to respect their preference.

that said, if someone initiates communication because they want something from someone it makes sense to be nice to them after all the sender wants something. but it's just that, an opportunity to be considerate of the other. (I'm not even sure I'd notice it in someone's slack status even if I'm DMing them. but I try to accommodate my coworkers' communication preferences, because remote work is already too alienating in itself, yet there are days when I just ask them to type instead of voice chat, etc.)

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