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Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

reuters.com

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Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#471

Post by [deleted] »

vkou wrote: post #379
chmod600 wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From your source: "Israeli politicians say the law is both an essential security measure to prevent Palestinian terror attacks and a means of preserving a Jewish majority in Israel." Maybe it's more of an immigration policy than a security policy?

It's a policy of apartheid, which is motivated by both immigration and security. Fortunately, as we have learned over the past few weeks, sanctions are an effective means of pushback against archaic 20-th century statesmanship.

[deleted]

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#472

Post by martinflack »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #455
sparky_ wrote: post #450

What citizenship status do Palestianians have by default, if not Israeli? Given that Israel doesn't recognise Palestine as a state, doesn't that obligate them to confer Israeli citizenship to the residents, as they would otherwise be stateless?

There is no obligation for any state to issue citizenship to anyone, unfortunately.

There are UN conventions[1][2] on statelessness that do require the bound parties to provide citizenship under very narrow conditions, essentially to avoid a stateless person. IANAL so I don't know if they apply in this type of example.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_Relating_to_the_Sta... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_the_Reduction_of...

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#473

Post by mattnewton »

walkhour wrote: post #334

Most comments here are attacking the decision, or just quoting the decision, and following it up by a "wtf". Just being shocked is not an argument. Jews are or have been persecuted in all middle eastern countries. What would happen if they were a minority in a democratic state in the Middle East? Why would it be different than in the other democracies in the Middle East? Laws like these lower the probability of Jews…

Serious question coming from a place of relative ignorance- are Jewish people today more persecuted in western democracies like the US than in Israel? There are certainly attacks, but I don't know how that compares to the sustained state of quasi-war that Israel exists in.

> Laws like these lower the probability of Jews becoming a minority in Israel. Do you think the probability of them becoming a minority is zero? And the probability of them being persecuted provided they become a minority is zero? Unless you think both probabilities are very low you must understand their concerns.

I think I understand their concerns but worry that this creates a new persecuted minority by race, ensuring Jewish security by persecuting native Arabic peoples. This is maybe an overly American lense, but "never again" to me means that we should have stringent minority protections above just "never again" for the Jewish people .

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#474

Post by hereforphone »

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #383

Look I always encourage people to read the Israeli constitution. Jewish state. Fact. Not multicultural, not secular. Jewish. That was the founders design.

I'm guessing you're fine with the several de facto Arab Islamic states out there.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#475

Post by petra »

belter wrote: post #422
jl6 wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably not a problem as Jewish is an ethnicity as well as a religion.

So if a non observant Jew wants to operate a shop on the Shabbat...then?

It depends on the city/area. In some places it's allowed, in others it is not.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#476

Post by s_dev »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #455
sparky_ wrote: post #450

What citizenship status do Palestianians have by default, if not Israeli? Given that Israel doesn't recognise Palestine as a state, doesn't that obligate them to confer Israeli citizenship to the residents, as they would otherwise be stateless?

There is no obligation for any state to issue citizenship to anyone, unfortunately.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_Relating_to_the_Sta...

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#477

Post by nsotelo »

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #383

Look I always encourage people to read the Israeli constitution. Jewish state. Fact. Not multicultural, not secular. Jewish. That was the founders design.

This doesn't make it immune from criticism. What if the United States added "Caucasian state" to the constitution and started discriminating against other ethnicities. Would that be okay for you?

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#478

Post by DecentAI »

superfunny wrote: post #174

The title of this post is mis-leading, or at least incomplete. Read the article. It's about denying automatic citizenship upon marriage. It's not about barring or banning marriage.

If you were aware of the intricacies of the jewish israeli law, you would understand that this ban is equivalent to defacto barring a ethnic minority from ever having the same civil liberties as a normal jewish born israeli. Theres no "misleading" around it.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#479

Post by Synaesthesia »

thatguy0900 wrote: post #353
nidhalbt wrote: post #28

We see more and more similar laws being passed in recent years, laws that are blatantly discriminatory. This may raise the indignation of many people, but in my opinion, Israel is shooting itself in the foot by passing these laws, because it reinforces the argument that it is an apartheid regime. Israel is slowly losing its support in the free democratic world where people believe in the inalienable universal rights…

Has Isreal ever had enough popular support to justify the massive amount of aid it is sent? It has governmental support, I don't think it needs the popular support

Yes from the 70's through the 90's it had huge popular support.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#480

Post by xdennis »

throwthere wrote: post #12

If you’re trying to pacify a group wouldn’t you encourage integration, instead of banning it?

Israelis are just being realists. If most of Israel was non-Jewish they'd be wiped off the map.

The amount of hate against Jews in this post is proof enough.

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