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VC Decries Airbnb’s Recent Funding for Founder Control and Cashout

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Re: VC Decries Airbnb’s Recent Funding for Founder Control and Cashout

#141
post #92
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Secondary transactions don't cause the company to issue more shares. They transfer shares from one party to another, so the total number of shares does not change and existing shareholders take no dilution.

If the only alternative being considered is for founders to sell their existing shares, yes. But other approaches to limiting founder dilution and rewarding early shareholders could have included new offsetting stock awards to key staff, or selling even more shares to pay bonuses taxed at ordinary income rates. Those could have been more dilutive to smaller shareholders than this dividend approach. Dividends are lega…

>Dividends are legal, tax-favored, and exist to reward actual shareholders-of-record

there is a special well known definition for a schema when "dividends" are paid using new incoming capital. The dividends you're talking about are supposed to be paid using earnings from the actual business.

Re: VC Decries Airbnb’s Recent Funding for Founder Control and Cashout

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on the number of times I've been offered stock options as a benefit of joining a startup, I'd say it's very prominent in startup culture as a motivator and recruitment tool. If it doesn't hold value (as it seems you're positing), then early employees are getting played in the worst way. They're the ones who are getting screwed. The context of what most people are saying is that founders are now getting their po…

There is a rational case for joining a startup as an early employee, especially if the startup is funded. It's likely to be less soul-crushing than working for a big company, you're going to earn a salary (perhaps even a market salary) and you're going to gain experience towards founding your own startup in the future. Stock options are a less significant part of the equation--they aren't worth anything unless there'…

That's a lovely sentiment, but it's not close to reality when it comes to the presentation made when pitching those early-stage employees to join a startup.

Imagine a founder talking to an engineer about their fantastic idea, explaining how huge the opportunity is, etc. etc. and that the engineer will earn experience and a close-to-market salary. And you'll have options, but they likely won't be worth much unless we become Google, Amazon or Microsoft.

Yeah, I can't imagine that conversation either.

The demand for talent makes this situation appealing only to those who really need the experience. The highest quality talent -- the ones you need for your early-stage startup to succeed -- can do better than this nowadays.

Re: VC Decries Airbnb’s Recent Funding for Founder Control and Cashout

#143
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the only alternative being considered is for founders to sell their existing shares, yes. But other approaches to limiting founder dilution and rewarding early shareholders could have included new offsetting stock awards to key staff, or selling even more shares to pay bonuses taxed at ordinary income rates. Those could have been more dilutive to smaller shareholders than this dividend approach. Dividends are lega…

>Dividends are legal, tax-favored, and exist to reward actual shareholders-of-record there is a special well known definition for a schema when "dividends" are paid using new incoming capital. The dividends you're talking about are supposed to be paid using earnings from the actual business.

When you say "...are supposed to be paid using earnings...", are you referring to a legal requirement? If so, this could be stopped by someone with a legal challenge.

If you just mean traditionally, well, if this is a more efficient way to meet the various goals of all parties to the transaction, I'm with founders/investors/innovation, moreso than tradition.

Also, money is fungible. What if AirBnb has earnings from elsewhere that could pay the dividend, meeting the early shareholders' desire for a interim diversifying return? But, that would then leave less capital for expansion. However, new investors are happy investing money that replaces (and then some) the cost of the dividend to support expansion costs.

There'd then be no essential violation of the way you think things are 'supposed to be': just think of earnings paying dividends, and then new investment adding all required expansion capital. Everybody who's a party to the transaction is happy, in a tax/legally-efficient manner, and no one's rights are trampled.

(As I've mentioned elsewhere, I think the main fairness issue would be if anyone who had the legal right to become dividend-eligible, for example by vested option-exercise, wasn't given that chance. But that's an internal fine detail we don't know about this still-in-progress private company financing.)

Re: VC Decries Airbnb’s Recent Funding for Founder Control and Cashout

#145
Cross-posting from my Quora answer:

http://www.quora.com/Airbnb/Why-are-Airbnbs-founders-excludi...

I have no knowledge of specifics outside of the ATD article mentioned, but my read says that the dividend will go to all common shareholders. So employees who have both vested and exercised shares will receive their pro-rated portion of the proceeds as well. It just seems that the founders must hold 93% of the vested shares (21/22.5), which is reasonable given that they started vesting years ago, when they were still in their cereal-selling phase.

Addressing the founders' decision to dividend-to-common instead of secondary selling some of their common shares:

In a typical venture financing, only preferred shares are sold, and there is a price per share that is set by the round's valuation. After closing, the price per share of the common shares/options is determined by external auditors in what is called a 409A valuation process. This process is a little bit of a game, whereby the company tries to come up with reasons (financial models, market comps, etc.) to depress the price of the common shares relative to preferred. This has the benefit of giving subsequent hires a lower exercise price on their options (and eventual higher profit upon exit.)

The price delta between the classes can be as high as 10:1, though it's usually closer to 3:1 and narrows as a company approaches IPO. However, were anyone (founders or employees) to sell common stock in the round, the common price per share would jump to exactly this new clearing price. Since Airbnb is a hot company, it's reasonable to think that buyers would be willing to pay a market price for common that's not far below preferred. And that would mean less upside for all future employees. A dividend-to-common avoids this.

Because Airbnb is so young and fast growing, they still need the allure of the upside of stock options to recruit and retain talent. Any sophisticated investor should understand this dynamic. And yet this dividend annoys them because it means there's a wealth transfer occurring that doesn't increase their ownership.

Let's assume for a second that I'm right and that all vested/exercised common shareholders will see some of the dividend. As food for thought, what if Airbnb had instead said they were going to spend $21M of their newly raised capital for cash bonuses for anyone who had worked for them more than a year -- distributed per employee via this equation: total hours worked * total value created... would the Valley's response have been less uproarious?

Re: VC Decries Airbnb’s Recent Funding for Founder Control and Cashout

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a rational case for joining a startup as an early employee, especially if the startup is funded. It's likely to be less soul-crushing than working for a big company, you're going to earn a salary (perhaps even a market salary) and you're going to gain experience towards founding your own startup in the future. Stock options are a less significant part of the equation--they aren't worth anything unless there'…

That's a lovely sentiment, but it's not close to reality when it comes to the presentation made when pitching those early-stage employees to join a startup. Imagine a founder talking to an engineer about their fantastic idea, explaining how huge the opportunity is, etc. etc. and that the engineer will earn experience and a close-to-market salary. And you'll have options, but they likely won't be worth much unless we…

Pre-funding, yes, is a leap of faith.

Post-funding, if you offer a market salary, standard benefits, and a startup working environment (which seems to be the norm for YC startups), why wouldn't top talent choose that over, say, working for Google?

Re: VC Decries Airbnb’s Recent Funding for Founder Control and Cashout

#147
post #28

I must have missed the post where a VC said "Guys, sorry, love your company but I couldn't in good conscience participate in a round where the rich people get paid and the poor people are told to wait for an exit." I must have missed that post quite frequently, because that describes every VC round ever . A $120 million investment round means that about $2.4 million in cash money just moved from the limited partners…

$120 million fund. 2% management fee = $2.4 Million a year. $2.4 Million a year sounds like a lot initially, but when you consider local salaries and costs associated with this. You might think that VC's make tons of money, but when you consider that the $2.4 Million has to fund their entire business, and when you look at how the costs break down, it starts to look a bit more reasonable. Here's how those costs break…

A $300k salary is absolutely not necessary to live in Silicon Valley.

Also, a $1M house is affordable if you earn 300k a year. Why would you think it's not? You could probably pay that off in 10 years, far short of the 30 year time span on most mortgages.

Re: VC Decries Airbnb’s Recent Funding for Founder Control and Cashout

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, why should anyone here care that the VC has to pay rent or salary expenses? Are they eating ramen or living in the office? As a founder, I'm delighted the AirBNB guys are charging for admission to their equity sale. Call the payout back wages paid at market rates and call it a day. And if investors are reacting in shock to the sticker price they can get out of the showroom. Sorry you won't be joining us - p…

At 20 million dollars, that would be a rather significant premium above market rates.

Early-stage investors aim for a 10x return on capital, yet AirBNB has consistently delivered 15-20x compound annual growth. That makes ten million per founder significantly less than their first few months of foregone salary if you compound the investment at the same rates investors are getting.

This guy is getting skittish that 1/100th of the valuation of the company is going in a payout to the founders? That's only 100k over a 10 million round. Seems pretty conservative to me.

Re: VC Decries Airbnb’s Recent Funding for Founder Control and Cashout

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a lovely sentiment, but it's not close to reality when it comes to the presentation made when pitching those early-stage employees to join a startup. Imagine a founder talking to an engineer about their fantastic idea, explaining how huge the opportunity is, etc. etc. and that the engineer will earn experience and a close-to-market salary. And you'll have options, but they likely won't be worth much unless we…

Pre-funding, yes, is a leap of faith. Post-funding, if you offer a market salary, standard benefits, and a startup working environment (which seems to be the norm for YC startups), why wouldn't top talent choose that over, say, working for Google?

> Post-funding, if you offer a market salary, standard benefits, and a startup working environment (which seems to be the norm for YC startups), why wouldn't top talent choose that over, say, working for Google?

If someone was making this statement to me, as a prospective employee at Startup X, a giant red flag would go up. This is a signal that (a) this company isn't aware of what's being offered elsewhere, and (b) this company is projecting what's valuable to me as an employee (no financial gain, but "better working conditions".)

I wish it was that trivial, but this is a quaint notion that simply doesn't work if your goal is to pull in premium talent. It may work once in a while, but long-term -- no way. Maybe that simplicity has worked for you in hiring situations, but in my geography -- you'll end up with mediocre talent.

The bigco environment you mention -- the Amazons, the Googles, the Microsofts -- top flight candidates are using the pool of bigco and startups against each other to gain greater financial rewards. It's leverage, and the top candidates have it and are using it to their advantage.

Play the reindeer games or not, the market is what it is.

Re: VC Decries Airbnb’s Recent Funding for Founder Control and Cashout

#150
post #79
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how normal it is, but I've never worked for a startup where I made more than the founder.

At YC startups especially, it is quite common. Founders often take the minimum amount of money necessary to survive. But they will often pay market (especially after Series A) or near-market to their hires, plus equity.

We recently got told by our accounting/legal people that founder salaries had to be at least 35k/yr once they started (which we did so we could get payroll/benefits in place for new hires; has to run for 6-8 weeks first, unless you go though a PEO like TriNet, which we didn't want to do) -- otherwise we were going for $2k/mo.

So now I make $3k/mo. It's interesting trying to live within that amount (I have savings, but consciously would like to not dip into them more than I have to) in the Bay Area.

It is a great opportunity to do IRA to Roth conversions and such this year. The crazy thing is I would technically qualify for rent controlled apartments in SF, although my income might be too low to rent them.

I think $50-60k is a much more reasonable founder salary, once we finish Series A. I suspect most Bay Area startups get to that point, or even up to $70-100k, for founders, once they raise >$3mm or so.

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