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Ukraine says Russia fired at Belarus from Ukrainian airspace to drag it into war

reuters.com

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Re: Ukraine says Russia fired at Belarus from Ukrainian airspace to drag it into war

#11

Post by supreme_berry »

hakunin wrote: post #7
supreme_berry wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can go this recent thread about blocking Instagram/Meta and read how they call west "nazi" https://habr.com/ru/news/t/655229/comments > This includes the Russians living in Donetsk who had a lot of anger towards the Ukraininan government Got you fam. Take your 15 rubles.

While I won't argue that many Russians are indeed nationalistic and pro-Putin, that thread shows the opposite. All anti-war comments are upvoted, anti-west downvoted. Some comments are sarcasm/irony, maybe it was lost in translation.

There's like right now 50/50. So from topic to topic pro-war comments can be more upvoted. Personally I left this comment https://habr.com/ru/news/t/655229/comments/#comment_24156299

Re: Ukraine says Russia fired at Belarus from Ukrainian airspace to drag it into war

#12

Post by fairity »

waffleiron wrote: post #3

Quoted post unavailable.

I wonder if people downvoting you realize you basically just stated a fact. It’s possible to support Ukraine while making room for the truth that there is propaganda in both directions.

Re: Ukraine says Russia fired at Belarus from Ukrainian airspace to drag it into war

#13

Post by sam_lowry_ »

supreme_berry wrote: post #5
hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is anecdata. I know many Russians and zero of them approve of the current war. This includes the Russians living in Donetsk who had a lot of anger towards the Ukraininan government previously.

You can go this recent thread about blocking Instagram/Meta and read how they call west "nazi" https://habr.com/ru/news/t/655229/comments > This includes the Russians living in Donetsk who had a lot of anger towards the Ukraininan government Got you fam. Take your 15 rubles.

I removed my account and my postings from habr at the start of the war by writing to its support.

Many habr users did the same, because the company behind habr chose not to speak up and decided to censor the site to avoid any mention of war.

At the same time, habr seems to suffer from increased activity of kremlinbots.

So what you see there are remnants of a once sprawling community.

Habr is irrelevant now.

Re: Ukraine says Russia fired at Belarus from Ukrainian airspace to drag it into war

#14

Post by NicoJuicy »

supreme_berry wrote: post #2

Quoted post unavailable.

I've had a look at habr ( it was interesting in the past too)

And while minor propaganda is being tried, most of the IT guys seem to be balancing reality from propaganda pretty well ( mostly by authors).

I'm not sure if i would be able to do that in such circumstances.

Note: with Google translate on.

Re: Ukraine says Russia fired at Belarus from Ukrainian airspace to drag it into war

#15

Post by dragontamer »

waffleiron wrote: post #3

Quoted post unavailable.

Lets actually discuss this talking point then. I'm not afraid to do so.

Tactically speaking, why would Ukraine send a fighter into Russian-controlled northern Ukraine to fire upon Belarus, when there's a convoy of tanks roughly 10-km away from Kyiv?

We have satellite footage of where the Russian forces are. We know that the Russian-supply train has ample surface-to-air missiles, as well as an advantage in Air Fighters over Ukraine. Any such operation from Ukraine to Belarus would be extremely high risk, and very low reward (at least, low-reward compared to breaking the encirclement of Kharkiv, Kyiv, or other besieged cities).

Do you have a tactical suggestion of why an attack on Belarus is in Ukraine's favor?

Re: Ukraine says Russia fired at Belarus from Ukrainian airspace to drag it into war

#16

Post by waffleiron »

dragontamer wrote: post #15
waffleiron wrote: post #3

Quoted post unavailable.

Lets actually discuss this talking point then. I'm not afraid to do so. Tactically speaking, why would Ukraine send a fighter into Russian-controlled northern Ukraine to fire upon Belarus, when there's a convoy of tanks roughly 10-km away from Kyiv? We have satellite footage of where the Russian forces are. We know that the Russian-supply train has ample surface-to-air missiles, as well as an advantage in Air Fighter…

No post body was provided.

Re: Ukraine says Russia fired at Belarus from Ukrainian airspace to drag it into war

#17

Post by sidibe »

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #4
supreme_berry wrote: post #2

Quoted post unavailable.

This is anecdata. I know many Russians and zero of them approve of the current war. This includes the Russians living in Donetsk who had a lot of anger towards the Ukraininan government previously.

If you go on Russian social media sites, there's an interesting phenomenon of many of them obviously disliking Putin while buying his propaganda wholesale about the West and Ukraine's Nazi government

Re: Ukraine says Russia fired at Belarus from Ukrainian airspace to drag it into war

#18

Post by dragontamer »

waffleiron wrote: post #16
dragontamer wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets actually discuss this talking point then. I'm not afraid to do so. Tactically speaking, why would Ukraine send a fighter into Russian-controlled northern Ukraine to fire upon Belarus, when there's a convoy of tanks roughly 10-km away from Kyiv? We have satellite footage of where the Russian forces are. We know that the Russian-supply train has ample surface-to-air missiles, as well as an advantage in Air Fighter…

Quoted post unavailable.

> Making Russia look bad is in Ukraine's best interest.

Yes. And Ukraine has been doing that by releasing videos like this: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/drone-russia...

Ukraine can make Russia look bad by killing Russian troops (which also has the side-effect by making those troops run away, offering more security to Ukrainian cities).

Explain to me how killing people in Belarus helps Ukraine, more so than killing the Russian invaders and further demonstrating the corruption and incompetence of Russian troops.

--------

We know why Russia would want to attack Belarus. Belarus originally promised to attack Ukraine, but has been holding back for some reason. Russia has clearly decided it needs to "encourage" Belarus into attacking Ukraine.

Ukraine, who already has a significant number of Russian troops to deal with, has no desire for Belarus to join the fight.

Re: Ukraine says Russia fired at Belarus from Ukrainian airspace to drag it into war

#19

Post by rich_sasha »

323 wrote: post #6

Last year Lukashenko (Belarus president) forced a plane flying over Belarus (from Greece to Lithuania) to land there to arrest a dissident who was criticizing him on board. Outraged EU imposed sanctions on Belarus, who was forced then to turn to Russia for support. Now Russia is calling the favor back and forcing him to send troops to Ukraine, which he doesn't want, both because it's a very unpopular move in Belarus,…

Lukashenko has been flirting with Russia all his life. He has no popular support, and the only thing keeping him in office all these years was his eastern neighbour.

For a long time now, sanctions or no sanctions, his raison d’être has been being Putin’s puppet, and now he is called to the blackboard.

Indeed he seems to have no enthusiasm for it, and has been trying to pull on his leash for years, but whenever push comes to shove, Russia pulls on the lead and Lukashenko obediently follows.

Re: Ukraine says Russia fired at Belarus from Ukrainian airspace to drag it into war

#20

Post by [deleted] »

waffleiron wrote: post #16
dragontamer wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets actually discuss this talking point then. I'm not afraid to do so. Tactically speaking, why would Ukraine send a fighter into Russian-controlled northern Ukraine to fire upon Belarus, when there's a convoy of tanks roughly 10-km away from Kyiv? We have satellite footage of where the Russian forces are. We know that the Russian-supply train has ample surface-to-air missiles, as well as an advantage in Air Fighter…

Quoted post unavailable.

[deleted]
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