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Old Age and Creativity

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Re: Old Age and Creativity

#61

Post by achenet »

21723 wrote: post #45
techas wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How many academic scientists end up being buried in managing science, particularly seeking funding? Today?? 100% of successful scientists.

This. When we look at the Soviet system, we don't think of it as having had much in the way of scientific or artistic accomplishments. There were some, and the practical engineering and economic achievements were nothing to sneeze at, but by and large the Soviet era is seen as somewhat of a dark age in terms of humanistic advancement, as indeed it was intended to be a transitional stage before communism, which the So…

It ain't that bad. We have the internet, that's pretty neat, and there's enough good food to feed many people.

Yeah you may have some people who are still mentally stuck in the feudal age, and yes it would be nicer if they got with the times are started trying to actually be useful instead of playing idiotic status games like chimps in suits, but I think by and large humanity does manage to produce nice things in spite of them.

For example - this website. ^_^

Re: Old Age and Creativity

#62

Post by mariodiana »

bambax wrote: post #17

> He drew some surprising conclusions: the writers were less likely to carry on, whereas some of the greatest artists, Michelangelo, Titian [etc.], became, if anything, more productive and liberated from convention as they went into old age This seems pretty arbitrary and anecdotal, and there are famous counterexamples. In French, Saint-Simon (the memorialist, not the economist) wrote his masterpiece of over 3 millio…

Michelangelo never married. What about the others?

There was a study done, years and years ago, that I remember reading about that suggested men are most productive, creatively — at the cutting edge in demanding fields — before they start families. The suggestion was that the demands of marriage and family life interfere with creativity. Put another way, the lone genius stops being one when he's no longer lone.

Re: Old Age and Creativity

#63

Post by 21eleven »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #54

I liked the article, and I hope to be more like an artist: I am soon turning 71 and retired from what I promised myself will be my last job last week (as a deep learning engineer, which is what I have been doing for about 7 years). I am now referring to myself as a ‘gentleman scientist’ and I am most interested in Hybrid AI so that will be my non-paid vocation. I am in the process of switching my personal tech stack…

You are an inspiration, I too want to be become a "gentleman scientist".

Also thanks for the mention of hasktorch, did not know of this interesting project.

Re: Old Age and Creativity

#64

Post by morelisp »

jleyank wrote: post #43
TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ken Thompson was around 49 years old when Plan 9 was first released. Not sure about other people on the Plan 9 team. But presumably they were all highly skilled and experienced engineers. The key question is who were their disciples? How much of their knowledge has been passed down to the next generation?

Everybody who read their books or hacked Unix or Linux could be considered their “students”. Their code was published, eventually, and in any event they left tracks to follow for those recreating it. They created an ideal to strive for, along with the original MIT hackers and those who emulated them at other sites. Remember, it used to be way more collegial working on machines in the early days. Given Unix and C and…

Most Linux developers (both kernel and userland) seemed to learn very little from Plan 9, except in very limited areas. Other Unix developers, even less. I think it made very little "mindshare progress" until Go and even today it's a (loud, but) minority view in the Go community.

I wonder if it ever troubled him he had vastly more influence with the "first draft" than the more refined system.

Re: Old Age and Creativity

#65

Post by kingdomcome50 »

I can't help but to imagine how an essay of this sort (about creativity) would look written by someone 60yo?

What I mean is that, as I have aged (and I am by no means old), the most obvious relationship between "creativity" and "age" has been the ever-raising bar that must be reached in order for me to think of something as creative.

Growing up I always thought it was so odd how indifferent my parents (and older people in general) felt towards all the newest music/movies etc., but now I realize that none of it was really new at all! It's the same stories/tropes/punchlines being regurgitated over and over. I was just young and hadn't yet had the breadth of experience to know what creativity actually looked like.

Maybe it's not that getting older makes us less creative in an absolute sense, rather, that as we get older we find it harder and harder to be creative in a relative sense? And so efforts that we may have found "worth it" at 25 no longer appeal at 65, and are therefore not even attempted (despite containing some creativity).

Re: Old Age and Creativity

#66

Post by rramadass »

jlokier wrote: post #18

Whenever this comes up I recommend: The real relationship between your age and your chance of success , which summarises a few statistics on this topic. https://www.ted.com/talks/albert_laszlo_barabasi_the_real_re... "... it created the impression to us that creativity equals youth, which is painful, right?" "... is it really true that creativity vanishes as we age?" Relevant to HN, there's also a segment on startup…

Great TEDx Talk!

The distinction drawn between Productivity/Performance and Success is insightful and clarifies how the latter does not follow as a matter of course from the former.

Re: Old Age and Creativity

#67

Post by s0teri0s »

discreteevent wrote: post #58
s0teri0s wrote: post #50

I don't think it's fair to compare artists (painters) to poets and writers. Old famous painters can get away with anything. Deser says older artists 'aren't as restrained by convention;' I take that to mean there is less intellectual rigor in older works (that is older works of senile artists are more akin to finger painting), which art dealers have a financial interest in promoting as works of advanced genius, easie…

Finger painting? Have you looked at the paintings of older masters? It's more like they have finally mastered their art and can now focus on the essence of it.

Do you feel that is true of Picasso, who was cited as an example in the article? When I see his oldest stuff, I can see the art in some of it, but other examples leave me questioning the validity of any his art. And Pollack literally just sprayed paint on a canvas. I'm not sure how old he was when he did that, though. Maybe he did get better. Of course, I don't think my examples are all-inclusive, nor do I mean to generalize about all elderly artists.

Re: Old Age and Creativity

#68

Post by [deleted] »

watwut wrote: post #35
_zamorano_ wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, is a society and ego issue. When you're 20-30 something and a nobody in your field, but a privileged mind, you keep your eyes open to all posibilities. You are hardworking and then results come. Then you gain a name and have all eyes on you and your mental processes change. Suddenly with your opinions, you've got a reputation to defend. You're aware of those supporting you and those who are not. You're reasoni…

Your analysis ignores young brilliant people who chase crazy stuff and thus never become known in the first place. Or become known for crazy stuff and nothing more.

[deleted]

Re: Old Age and Creativity

#69

Post by karmakurtisaani »

21723 wrote: post #49
nosianu wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's my contrarian perspective, I'm 49. I'm only going to give a small part of my thoughts, there's more, but let's keep a narrow focus for the forum format. I'm less and less willing to submerge myself deep into fields far removed from daily life. I can still do it, and actually easier than ever before. I just don't want to. I feel it's not because I'm dumber, quite he opposite. It's because I understand and see s…

One thing I've noticed with age is the reduced interest in competing. When you're young, you want to know how you measure up to your peers, what your percentile ranking is, et cetera. When you're older, you realize that very few things actually worth doing fit into a competitive frame, because if something can be objectively evaluated, then it's probably already been done a million times. I don't think chess players…

I kind of disagree on the chess player point. I think many older players would gladly keep competing on the highest level, but just can't keep up. It's not really far fetched that younger people think faster, have more stamina and can keep focus better in those several hour long matches in world class tournaments.

However, with older age comes ability to select where to focus better and put things in perspective. The skills gained with aging don't really help with chess, which reduces most of the time to raw calculation and focus.

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