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Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

reuters.com

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Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#361

Post by zd123 »

thatsmyfribble wrote: post #259

First of all, this isn't a ban on Israeli-Palestinian marriage, this is a restriction on the ability to gain citizenship through those marriages. I don't agree with that, but I do think it's important to clarify. Regarding comments I'm seeing here saying Israel is an apartheid state or that Israel is racist or that Israel the concept of a Jewish state is disgusting: Israel is the size of New Jersey. It is the only st…

You can try diverting from the core issue at hand, using semantic sleights of hand, but it’s becoming apparent that Israel is indeed an apartheid state.

By the laws it enacts and the oppression they enable, it is the definition of a racist state.

The world is beginning to see it too, though very slowly.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#362

Post by simiones »

pavelrub wrote: post #201
borispavlovic wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be interesting to see the ration between the Arab Israelis wishing to marry an Arab from WB/Gaza and Jewish Israelis wishing to marry a Jewish from WB/Gaza. Laws make sense in a context of a society.

There is a fundamental difference between a law that prohibits a specific ethnicity from doing X, and a law that prohibits everyone from doing X, but a specific ethnicity/minority is more affected by it than others. The former is pretty much never legitimate, while the latter is often unavoidable, and I imagine exists to some extent in any country with minorities.

This law very explicitly discriminates against non-Jewish Palestinians (and Lebanese and a few others). It also disproportionately affects Israeli Arabs and others who are much more likely than Israeli Jews to have spouses who would be discriminated against by this law.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#363

Post by JumpCrisscross »

pessimizer wrote: post #355
sempron64 wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Ukraine passes law barring spouses who are from Russia from becoming citizens” Seems fine to me.

A third of Ukrainians speak Russian as a first language. That really sounds fine to you?

The hypothetical doesn’t ban marrying Russian speakers or citizens. It doesn’t ban naturalisation based on marriage for a Russian speaker. It bans naturalisation based on marriage for Russian citizens. While at war that seems fine.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#364

Post by joshenberg »

apricot wrote: post #138

From the article: « Proponents say the law helps ensure Israel's security and maintains its "Jewish character". » Which is eerily similar to the arguments in favor of the 1935 "Law for the Protection of German Blood and German Honour" (Nurenberg laws) in Germany, which forbade marriage between Germans and Jews.

The demographic difference between the two is staggering. If all Palestinians received right of return to Israel, Jews would immediately become a political minority.

The Germans had no equivalent statistical reasoning other than racism.

Think about the context before you compare people to Nazis

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#365

Post by twofornone »

claviola wrote: post #281
dotancohen wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I'm trying really hard to put aside the racist comments... This still doesn't explain how these women are obtaining Israeli citizenship if polygamy is illegal.

Pointing out dramatic differences between cultures is not racist, and pretending they do not exist to honor misguided western virtues while supporting loose immigration policies breeds resentment among those (typically lower income) who are forced to suffer the friction of cultural clash.

Third world immigrants are far less likely than natives to care about your laws, just as they are far less likely to honor your ideas about morality, justice, etc. It's not a stretch to imagine Muslims from poor middle eastern countries having multiple wives regardless of the legality of the practice, particularly given their religiously inspired oppression of women - what proportion of those wives are even willing to speak out?

It's ironic that western champions of women's rights are totally silent on the issue, apparently not being a "racist" is more important than standing against abuse among immigrant populations.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#366

Post by fredophile »

pavelrub wrote: post #127
pthread_t wrote: post #39

So, 21% of Israel's population has restrictions on who they could marry all so that they can maintain a majority of the favored demographic. This is apartheid.

The restriction applies to everybody, not just Israeli Arabs. However it is true that Israeli Arabs are the ones most affected by it.

Laws that make it illegal to sleep under bridges apply to everybody, not just the homeless. Does that mean a law against sleeping under bridges is not targeting the homeless?

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#367

Post by nec4b »

g8oz wrote: post #352

The parallels to the Jim Crow South and its borderline hysterical obsession with managing the ethno-racial balance are very strong.

Israel would cease to exist if there was no Jewish majority anymore. Just one more Arab country instead. Would you be ok with that?

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#368

Post by sempron64 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #356
sempron64 wrote: post #354

Consider the following word replacements. [Ukraine/Israel] is established as an ethnic state after the end of the [Soviet/British] regime. [Ukraine/Israel] passes laws to protect its language and national identity in the face of its neighboring [Russia/Arab states] [Ukraine/Israel] is persecuting its [Russian/Arab] minorities by enacting discriminatory laws. [Ukraine/Israel] does not recognize [DNR/Palestinian] state…

> [Ukraine/Israel] is persecuting its [Russian/Arab] minorities by enacting discriminatory laws The analogy doesn’t hold here. Ukraine shouldn’t persecute it’s Russian minority. (Hell, it’s Russian-speaking cities are lobbing Molotov cocktails at the invaders.) And Palestine isn’t mounting an invasion of Israel, though if they had the capability, it’s uncertain they wouldn’t—the Arab nations tried twice.

Ukraine passed laws banning the Russian language, which was one of the excuses made by Russia to begin this conflict.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#369

Post by chmod600 »

docdeek wrote: post #84

This article doesn’t really provide much in the way of explanation for why this law is being enacted. Here [0] is a better article that quotes supporters and objectors to the law. It includes the (IMHO not very convincing) figures that "Between 1993 and 2003, around 130,000 Palestinians were given Israeli citizenship or residency through family unification, including children, according to court filings. The Shin Bet…

From your source: "Israeli politicians say the law is both an essential security measure to prevent Palestinian terror attacks and a means of preserving a Jewish majority in Israel."

Maybe it's more of an immigration policy than a security policy?

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#370

Post by pessimizer »

apricot wrote: post #138

From the article: « Proponents say the law helps ensure Israel's security and maintains its "Jewish character". » Which is eerily similar to the arguments in favor of the 1935 "Law for the Protection of German Blood and German Honour" (Nurenberg laws) in Germany, which forbade marriage between Germans and Jews.

A lot of it is the same European culture. If the Nazis hadn't cared about Jews and only went after Roma, communists, and homosexuals, they would have been as likely to enthusiastically participate as any other German.
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