Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom • Hacker News Board

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#171

Post by Mezzie » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 3:27 PM UTC

galoisscobi wrote: post #30

Wrote to Dianne Feinstein of CA about being against Earn-IT act and got a letter back about how Earn IT act would prevent child sexual abuse material online. Sigh. As disappointed as I was in the response, I'm glad that EFF makes it really easy to reach out to reps. Took me less than a minute to send out my stance against the Earn IT act to my representatives https://act.eff.org/action/stop-the-earn-it-act-to-save-ou…

I'll go one further: I have child porn of myself online and I don't support the Earn-IT Act. Then again, having my online presence wiped out after 7.5 years at the age of 12 when COPPA went into effect made me really cynical.

As did the fact that nobody listened to the few of us who were children online back then. It's always based on these weird, interesting hypotheticals.

(This isn't to minimize child abuse or trafficking, of course.)

Edit: Also I'll say as someone who's been online for almost 30 years (age 4 to now almost 34) that the harassment and sexual abuse I received/was subject to were at their highest levels from the ages of 14 to 25.

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#172

Post by brightball » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 3:29 PM UTC

LMYahooTFY wrote: post #105

noone1954 wrote: post #42

Throw away account (does not do much good with modern AI and ML). But here goes. I am a US citizen (never left the country) and I always vote Republican. Down-vote away! The FBI came to my house in October 2021. Two special agents (one of which I knew from prior IT Security engagements) and a 'Threat Assessment' Police Officer from the local police department. They asked me if I was an Islamic extremist/terrorist. I…

Did they ever present you with evidence of anything? From what I've heard it's quite possible to identify Tor traffic if you're determined enough. Perhaps they were pressuring you because they thought you were running a relay/node?

Maxmind API's will identify Tor traffic pretty reliably fwiw.

I tried Tor one time years ago when I was testing Maxmind. It always seemed like if you were using it you'd become an exit node by default (I could be completely wrong on this, I haven't looked into deeply). Just gave me the impression that my IP address would suddenly be associated with whatever anyone else was doing and that seemed...bad.

Totally understand that there are plenty of perfectly valid uses of Tor but you don't really hear much about those.

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#173

Post by mint2 » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 3:52 PM UTC

noone1954 wrote: post #42

Throw away account (does not do much good with modern AI and ML). But here goes. I am a US citizen (never left the country) and I always vote Republican. Down-vote away! The FBI came to my house in October 2021. Two special agents (one of which I knew from prior IT Security engagements) and a 'Threat Assessment' Police Officer from the local police department. They asked me if I was an Islamic extremist/terrorist. I…

Why was your political affiliation relevant to that story? Peppering that non-sequitur in might mean you’re more focused on politics as teams than is warranted or justified.

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#174

Post by meowfly » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 3:55 PM UTC

matheusmoreira wrote: post #54

galoisscobi wrote: post #30

Wrote to Dianne Feinstein of CA about being against Earn-IT act and got a letter back about how Earn IT act would prevent child sexual abuse material online. Sigh. As disappointed as I was in the response, I'm glad that EFF makes it really easy to reach out to reps. Took me less than a minute to send out my stance against the Earn IT act to my representatives https://act.eff.org/action/stop-the-earn-it-act-to-save-ou…

Do politicians even read these letters?

The EFF sent me a letter encouraging me to contact my congressman to support a bill that would prevent federal funding of anti-encryption technologies by the FBI. (https://act.eff.org/action/speak-up-for-strong-encryption-ru...)

My representative called me to talk about it. He told me he hadn't seen the bill but he agrees that isn't where the FBI should be spending their energy. It seems like the bill never got off the ground.

My guess is the prewritten letters are probably less considered.

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#175

Post by boredumb » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 4:07 PM UTC

vitiral wrote: post #20

I feel like they missed the primary point which is that E2E encryption is the primary thing protecting everyone from hackers/criminals/other-governments. Without it the criminals WILL have access to your systems and data and then you can basically say goodbye to anything being valuable at all. Locking your door at night is a poor metaphor. A criminal can literally infiltrate and search through every unsecured compute…

"Making encryption illegal will ensure that only criminals use it, thus making only criminals safe online."

Uptown NYC has a tragically similar problem with fire arms.

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#176

Post by butivene » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 4:15 PM UTC

vitiral wrote: post #20

I feel like they missed the primary point which is that E2E encryption is the primary thing protecting everyone from hackers/criminals/other-governments. Without it the criminals WILL have access to your systems and data and then you can basically say goodbye to anything being valuable at all. Locking your door at night is a poor metaphor. A criminal can literally infiltrate and search through every unsecured compute…

> I feel like they missed the primary point which is that E2E encryption is the primary thing protecting everyone from hackers/criminals/other-governments.

Implementing a backdoor securely which only allows some government agencies to snoop in the decrypted data could technically be possible but I never happened to see a secure implementation of such a scheme – probably every cryptographer of name would refrain from contributing to insecurity.

So, IF a backdoor would be implemented securely, that would increase the power of the current government over all the people, including the opposition. If the US would go ahead with such legislation, countries like Hungary and Poland would follow soon, in which the new tool would be welcomed to suppress opinions diverting from the governments ideology, undermining freedom of speech further and increasing the "chilling effect".

In the mean-time, terrorists (etc.) would switch to steganography and add an undetectable layer of encryption on top.

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#177

Post by DethNinja » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 4:15 PM UTC

laerus wrote: post #102

Lawmakers losing touch with reality day by day. Technology has left these old crooks in the last century and they can't cope with things they don't even understand.

Have you ever considered the following possibility:

Perhaps Lawmakers belong a different class than you and that they are fully aware of what they are doing. Perhaps they actually want to rule over you by removing your rights one by one.

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#178

Post by anonporridge » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 4:17 PM UTC

boredumb wrote: post #175

vitiral wrote: post #20

I feel like they missed the primary point which is that E2E encryption is the primary thing protecting everyone from hackers/criminals/other-governments. Without it the criminals WILL have access to your systems and data and then you can basically say goodbye to anything being valuable at all. Locking your door at night is a poor metaphor. A criminal can literally infiltrate and search through every unsecured compute…

"Making encryption illegal will ensure that only criminals use it, thus making only criminals safe online." Uptown NYC has a tragically similar problem with fire arms.

"Making dealing drugs illegal will ensure that only criminals can profit off dealing drugs, thus making only criminals rich."

We can play this game all day with many forms of abolition for any good or service that has a relatively inelastic demand and/or is impossible to effectively enforce.

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#179

Post by anonporridge » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 4:21 PM UTC

godelski wrote: post #45

heavyset_go wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our security doesn't matter to them, the only security they value is their security from the rest of us. This bill grants them just that.

Which is strange because our security is their security. If we don't have security then we are more vulnerable to foreign influences. We are more vulnerable to foreign attacks. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either everyone has security or no one does, including politicians and elites.

You underestimate the unrelenting desire of people in power to have their cake and eat it too.

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#180

Post by vegetablepotpie » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 4:24 PM UTC

docmars wrote: post #162

fsflover wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Banning encryption is such an attack on privacy that it's closer to banning clothes and easing concerns by making looking at naked people illegal. This is completely missing the point of why one needs privacy. Lack of it harms journalism and activism, making the government too powerful and not accountable. If only activists and journalists will try to have the privacy, it will be much easier to target them. Everyon…

The right to privacy, and protections against unreasonable search and seizure are enshrined in the U.S. Constitution after all!

Yes, and the government has created convenient carve outs for its self. For example in Carroll v. United States, the judicial branch surrendered its authority to authorize searches to the executive branch. For searches of your vehicle, all the police need is probable cause. The police, of course, determine if they have probable cause. So this makes the 4th amendment irrelevant in these circumstances.

Throughout US history, there is a march towards ignoring citizens rights, through political, judicial, and bureaucratic maneuvering. The constitution is a piece of paper. There are people who’s full time job is to separate your understanding of your rights from what is written in that document. When they’re clever enough, they will allow state violence to be imposed on you with no repercussions.