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Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

reuters.com

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Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#311

Post by fmakunbound »

docdeek wrote: post #84

This article doesn’t really provide much in the way of explanation for why this law is being enacted. Here [0] is a better article that quotes supporters and objectors to the law. It includes the (IMHO not very convincing) figures that "Between 1993 and 2003, around 130,000 Palestinians were given Israeli citizenship or residency through family unification, including children, according to court filings. The Shin Bet…

How is it that you and user adielsa paste this same reply here multiple times?

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#312

Post by jonathan-adly »

redditwhat wrote: post #297
jonathan-adly wrote: post #60

This is how the Middle East works by the way. Interreligious marriages are a very big deal and banned in every single Middle Eastern country. The good countries will refuse to issue a marriage license to you, the bad countries will send the police to watch as a mob lynches you. If you see Israel as some kind of psuedo-western state, then yea, you should be shocked. But as a Middle Eastern country, this is just anothe…

Please explain how the #23 ranked country in the democracy index(higher than countries such as Italy, Spain and the US) and the #24 highest GDP per capita(higher than UK, France and South Korea) is not more of a western country then authoritarian regimes like Jordan, Turkey or Egypt? Israel has one of the largest pride parades in the world (300k+ people) and equal rights for LGBTQ people. Please look up what happens…

What does the ultra-Orthodox Jews think about those parades?

Just by the demographics alone, those guys will be in charge very soon. (or Israel will cease to be democratic).

So yes, Israel is not there yet, but well on its way. (and I have no problems with that, as long as they don't try to impose their religious values on me).

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#313

Post by [deleted] »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #275
thatsmyfribble wrote: post #259

First of all, this isn't a ban on Israeli-Palestinian marriage, this is a restriction on the ability to gain citizenship through those marriages. I don't agree with that, but I do think it's important to clarify. Regarding comments I'm seeing here saying Israel is an apartheid state or that Israel is racist or that Israel the concept of a Jewish state is disgusting: Israel is the size of New Jersey. It is the only st…

"Israel was not built by its founders to be a melting pot, it was built as a home for displaced Jewish people. It was not built to be a place of equality, and unfortunately, by its nature it cannot be one and continue to serve its purpose. If you think that purpose is racist, you are entitled to that opinion, but there are many who believe what Jews have faced throughout history justify a Jewish homeland, and it is v…

[deleted]

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#314

Post by Markoff »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #275
thatsmyfribble wrote: post #259

First of all, this isn't a ban on Israeli-Palestinian marriage, this is a restriction on the ability to gain citizenship through those marriages. I don't agree with that, but I do think it's important to clarify. Regarding comments I'm seeing here saying Israel is an apartheid state or that Israel is racist or that Israel the concept of a Jewish state is disgusting: Israel is the size of New Jersey. It is the only st…

"Israel was not built by its founders to be a melting pot, it was built as a home for displaced Jewish people. It was not built to be a place of equality, and unfortunately, by its nature it cannot be one and continue to serve its purpose. If you think that purpose is racist, you are entitled to that opinion, but there are many who believe what Jews have faced throughout history justify a Jewish homeland, and it is v…

More importantly it was built in Palestine. So they kicked out Palestinians from their own land, restricted them to small piece of land and now they are kicking them even from the stolen part of land after marrying the Israelis.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#315

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

thatsmyfribble wrote: post #305
A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Israel was not built by its founders to be a melting pot, it was built as a home for displaced Jewish people. It was not built to be a place of equality, and unfortunately, by its nature it cannot be one and continue to serve its purpose. If you think that purpose is racist, you are entitled to that opinion, but there are many who believe what Jews have faced throughout history justify a Jewish homeland, and it is v…

I don't think it was built with the intention of subjugation, but I think it has been a consequence of its implementation and politics. I do think there is a version of a Jewish state that doesn't behave like this, but its current political consensus is not that state.

"I don't think it was built with the intention of subjugation,"

But was it built with the intention of segregation?

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#316

Post by axiomsEnd »

tedivm wrote: post #277
jpgvm wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this context Christian almost always means white even if they try to pretend that isn't the case. At least Australia didn't mince words and called it the White Australia Policy, everyone else feels like they need to make it about religon or something else to make the racism more palatable.

"Western Culture" is the dog whistle we're hearing a lot in the US.

I love Western Culture as a term. In Central Europe it meant whatever was on the right side of Iron Curtain (mostly liberal democracy and all what comes with it), then Iron Curtain dissapeared and it got second meaning as white, Anglo-Saxon, protestant values protected in white, orthodox/catholic Slavic countries. Currently you have to guess which one it is from the context of the sentence.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#317

Post by jpgvm »

tablespoon wrote: post #287
jpgvm wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this context Christian almost always means white even if they try to pretend that isn't the case. At least Australia didn't mince words and called it the White Australia Policy, everyone else feels like they need to make it about religon or something else to make the racism more palatable.

> In this context Christian almost always means white even if they try to pretend that isn't the case. No, it doesn't. Also, aren't most Mexicans technically white (i.e. that's what they're supposed to check on a US census form)? It's just a bad analogy. There are paths to modify that analogy to make it work (or at least work better) for the pair America and Mexico, but you're not following any of those.

I wasn't commenting specifically in the lens of Mexico/America just that generally it's thinly veiled racism.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#318

Post by toyg »

zozbot234 wrote: post #280
toyg wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judaism is not just a religion; because of how they define membership of such religion, it's intrinsecally inseparable from a tribalistic element. Whether that ends up in outright racism, depends on who you ask.

Hindu religion is quite similar. In fact Judaism explicitly allows for conversion (which, to be sure, is a difficult process) whereas Hinduism only acknowledges "purification" of "ethnically/ancestrally Hindu" people who were introduced to other religions.

Conversions don't grant full "membership" in all circumstances, there are strict conditions.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#319

Post by lkbm »

imglorp wrote: post #236
JasonFruit wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "The State of Israel is Jewish and so it will remain," said Simcha Rothman of the far-right Religious Zionism party, a member of the opposition who brought the law forward with Interior Minister Ayelet Shaked. "Today, God willing, Israel's defensive shield will be significantly strengthened," he told the Knesset hours before the vote.

I'm baffled how the people who survived the Holocaust, among numerous other persecutions, are now so intolerant of another persecuted people.

One thing that stood out to me when reading about the Rwandan genocide was that Madeleine Albright—who lost three grandparents to the Holocaust and was touted as being humanitarian in part as a result—was center of the US' diligent refusal to acknowledge the genocide they were watching unfold, and recasting of the Genocide Convention as merely allowing intervention in genocide. (It obligates intervention.)

Less than a year after the Holocaust Museum in DC opened its doors, proudly declaring "Never Again".

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