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Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

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Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#121
Just enjoy what little online freedom you have while it's here. It doesn't matter if this bill passes or not, the fact that 99% of the general population just don't think about or care about this sort of thing means that we will eventually lose this war.

Politicians also don't know a damn thing about it, but the incentives are very strong for them to insert more gov. into everyone's life, so that is what will inevitably happen.

Sorry about being the party pooper, especially on a Friday, so just enjoy your PGP, E2E encryption, Tor, Btc, etc. while you still can (the more you do, the better our chances of keeping them for longer).

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#122
post #20

I feel like they missed the primary point which is that E2E encryption is the primary thing protecting everyone from hackers/criminals/other-governments. Without it the criminals WILL have access to your systems and data and then you can basically say goodbye to anything being valuable at all. Locking your door at night is a poor metaphor. A criminal can literally infiltrate and search through every unsecured compute…

> Making crypto illegal will ensure that only criminals have the ability to use it. The right to bear digital arms.

This is an interesting angle I´d not heard before, as cryptography had at least at some point been classified as munitions (maybe still is, I haven't been watching that).

"Okay, in that case, the constitution says you can't infringe my right to it."

Although I would fear going down that path would lead to them saying, "Well, we already infringe on access to certain kinds of munitions, so you can still have encryption, but only the stuff we have a backdoor to." which has been on the agenda before.

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#123

Banning encryption is basically banning certain maths. In a way, it's an affront on free speech, because it is explicitly saying speech must be done in a way that can always be eavesdropped. An analogy I use to explain to people who don't have a technical background is, "Imagine if we made it law that every pen ever made was required to be chained to a special clipboard that makes a carbon copy of whatever the pen wr…

>Banning encryption is basically banning certain maths.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_number

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#124
I keep thinking that if encryption was an actual weapon, and keys actual ammunitions¹, they would be much easier to defend than they actually are. Funny that: cryptography is relatively harmless, making it all the more immoral to restrict it. But that same harmlessness make it that much harder to defend. I mean, just try to take away nukes from a nuclear capable nation, or guns from a Texan village. Maybe you can, but the costs of doing so tend to give pause.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_th...

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#125

Banning encryption is basically banning certain maths. In a way, it's an affront on free speech, because it is explicitly saying speech must be done in a way that can always be eavesdropped. An analogy I use to explain to people who don't have a technical background is, "Imagine if we made it law that every pen ever made was required to be chained to a special clipboard that makes a carbon copy of whatever the pen wr…

Similar analogy would be, anything you say to anyone should be recorded, which can be subpoenaed.

EDIT: What happens when I send someone an email in a made-up language which only we both know?

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#126
The difference between hackers and our enemies is that we value reason, logic and consistency whereas the political classes deal in emotion, and expedient affect (truth and consistency are irrelevant). Trump and Putin use the same play-book, and other leaders are learning from them [1]

Many comments here declare voting as irrelevant and ineffectual. This leaves a sense of learned helplessness in challenging dangerous political forces.

But hackers seem to be overlooking important ideas that we should know better about. Voting may not work on the individual level, but it works at scale, and we are really good at scaling things. Emotion is a much more powerful tool than reason, and influence is really just social engineering at scale. We are good at social engineering. Modern propaganda is as much technical craft as a creative one. We are great at both.

The British Saatchi campaign is a flop, almost a laughable example of how disconnected from people they really are. What makes information war interesting is that highly polished short documentaries and video clips are not expensive or difficult to produce. The EFF already tried their hand with "The Corruptibles", which I think was very promising.

The EFF are wasting their time writing blog posts that preach to the choir and only a handful of regular readers will see. I know because that's what I do, and as a writer I am realising that I speak almost entirely to those whose minds don't need changing.

What's needed is a fight with the politicians on their own ground with funny, viral, highly emotive, slickly produced influence materials that show how ridiculous any attack on E2E technologies really is at this time in history. I think the EFF could better use their resources this way.

[1] read about Vladislav Surkov and the tactics of discombobulation.

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For the members of Congress you need to convince of this? They ARE the state We agree in a limited sense. (There are lots of politicians who genuinely believe in curtailing state power.) Arguments about state overreach won’t convince a power-hungry vote chaser. Talk about foreign adversaries will.

What's lots, and how much does it cost to change their opinion?

How much do they want to be friends with the 3-letter agencies affected by their decisions?

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#130
post #81

This particular article (not the subject) looked suspicious to me, since I didn't see it contain a link to the EARN-IT bill. I respect that it was created by the FSF, but they really should link to the bill's text. The bill's text is here. [1] I don't think it does anything that is stated in the article. It's stated purpose is to create a commission that will create recommendations that nobody will have to follow. It…

My interpretation is, the bill will remove liability shield for “online publisher” for CSAM. This then effectively means that no online platform may use end to end encryption to protect their user, for fear of liability.

Individual user, and those who own the content of their website, are free to use E2E if they choose to, whatever benefit that still gives.

Anticipation of this law feels like why Apple went through its CSAM debacle. Expect to see more content scanning after this passes. The CSAM DB Apple was said to be using will likely be “best practice” in how online service may get liability shield back.

I too don’t like how HN, FSF, EFF jumps straight to “encryption ban”. It spells fear that too much nuance will weaken their argument.

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