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Apple AirTags draining battery of devices close by

annoying.technology

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Re: Apple AirTags draining battery of devices close by

#151

Post by least »

agentgumshoe wrote: post #140
least wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I dislike how companies are not only pushing proprietary mesh networks, but also making them automatically enabled for their users and opt-out. I actually quite like that this particular feature is opt out because the goal is to make the mesh network actually useful and not just a white paper theoretical application with zero adoption. Requiring labor of any kind will exclude much of the population from the start,…

If no one would use it if it was opt-in, that says something about the actual demand for such a thing, aside the product makers.

It doesn't say anything about the actual demand, but about human tendency to take the path of least resistance. There are many things that might benefit me but I won't go out of my way to do, and that's the same for everyone else as well. Opt out means that I don't have to do anything but do get the benefits of that thing.

What is perhaps problematic is that it's not visible enough that this feature has tradeoffs or that there is an option to opt out, or even that the feature exists, but that problem exists for all sorts of software on the phone.

Re: Apple AirTags draining battery of devices close by

#152

Post by devoutsalsa »

andrewia wrote: post #57

I've seen this issue in a slightly different context. A few years ago, my Android phone began dying much more quickly than before. Looking at the built-in battery stats, nothing was amiss and there were no apps causing excessive wakeups. It was only when I used Android Battery Historian that I saw there was a ton of bluetooth wakeups caused by Google Play Services. But why would it be waking up so much? Usually the w…

That could also just be a bug. I remember installing an energy sucking application in 2014 on my Android; I think it was Expensify. I had noticed my battery was draining pretty fast, but then I noticed it took forever to even charge the phone. Upon closer examination, the app was consuming like 65% of all the energy being used. It must have been a bug, as there's no way they would make an app drain the battery that fast on purpose.

Re: Apple AirTags draining battery of devices close by

#153

Post by sdoering »

redleader55 wrote: post #35
picture wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like a neat demo. Out of curiosity, what software/hardware did you use to see and ping nearby BLE devices?

You can do this easily with an Android phone. These are the apps I use: Lightblue nRFConnect BLE Scanner

I just used nRFConnect and found a device name that was strange to me. Got curious and asked Google.

A personal pleasure toy (aka sex toy) that is visible on Bluetooth. Just for fun I walked a bit around in the garden and found the direction where the signal got stronger.

I can now deduce with reasonable certainty which of my neighbors home has a remote controlled sex toy in it. As I know the family living there and how conservative they are with their cultural background I would not have expected that.

Imagine how I now just could now wait for the parents to make their big yearly holiday. From the website of the tool I know the specs on how long the battery holds when not in use. So if before the end of the holiday the tool is visible in Bluetooth I could reason with a very high degree of certainty that it was the daughter's tool. If it were so this tool would five her away. It would be a liability for her (if it is her tool). If their community knew, they would be appalled. So it is a liability for the whole family as well.

They are nowhere near the technical ability to identify this liability I just stumbled upon by chance.

Re: Apple AirTags draining battery of devices close by

#154

Post by waste_monk »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #133
heavyset_go wrote: post #124

I dislike how companies are not only pushing proprietary mesh networks, but also making them automatically enabled for their users and opt-out. It feels like the companies are piggybacking on my internet connection, hardware and electricity for free to literally power their closed network. I don't get paid a penny for it, but their shareholders sure do. Open mesh networks could be really cool, but instead of open net…

> we get mesh networks that only allow Alexa to pump ads into your home I didn't realize Apple AirTags were enabling ads for Amazon, or apple was using AirTags to pump ads for Apple, or is this just an exaggeration? Surely we got more mesh network than ones that push ads? I like the ones that help you find lost/stolen things.

I believe they mean things like Amazon Sidewalk, where it co-opts your home internet connection to serve Amazon devices.

Re: Apple AirTags draining battery of devices close by

#155

Post by Schroedingersat »

walrus01 wrote: post #126
heavyset_go wrote: post #124

I dislike how companies are not only pushing proprietary mesh networks, but also making them automatically enabled for their users and opt-out. It feels like the companies are piggybacking on my internet connection, hardware and electricity for free to literally power their closed network. I don't get paid a penny for it, but their shareholders sure do. Open mesh networks could be really cool, but instead of open net…

The day that I install any amazon sidewalk enabled device in my home is the day I hang up my hat and resign in shame, as a network engineer who's been building internet infrastructure since 1999. It's so gross and wrong. amazon doesn't get a free ride on my residential internet service or arbitrary use of radio spectrum in my home. note: I also have no smart doorbells, cloud connected security cameras, internet enabl…

> just you wait until manufacturers of "internet of shit" things go really evil, and integrate low cost LTE radios into them with their own billing/centralized management/VPN system.

Why bother? They'll iust use your neighbor's wifi (at extra rf pollution cost to your house) or the surveillance system on the streetlamp outside being paid for by your tax money

or remove the opt out option from 'your' phone

Re: Apple AirTags draining battery of devices close by

#156

Post by seanmcdirmid »

waste_monk wrote: post #154
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we get mesh networks that only allow Alexa to pump ads into your home I didn't realize Apple AirTags were enabling ads for Amazon, or apple was using AirTags to pump ads for Apple, or is this just an exaggeration? Surely we got more mesh network than ones that push ads? I like the ones that help you find lost/stolen things.

I believe they mean things like Amazon Sidewalk, where it co-opts your home internet connection to serve Amazon devices.

I read the comment that this was all we were were getting (mesh networks run by private companies that weren’t helping us), while Apple is pushing something that many find useful and they aren’t using it for other nefarious purposes (that we know of).

Re: Apple AirTags draining battery of devices close by

#157

Post by Schroedingersat »

least wrote: post #145
FireBeyond wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I actually quite like that this particular feature is opt out because the goal is to make the mesh network actually useful and not just a white paper theoretical application with zero adoption. Requiring labor of any kind will exclude much of the population from the start, which, for this particular utility, is not tenable. And people nearby you? Apple is draining your battery for their benefit, using your cellular…

Yes, everyone who has the feature turned on is pooling their resources together to create a common utility that everyone with the feature benefits from. I fail to see how this is an issue. This is not like Apple exfiltrating data from your phone back to them that can incriminate you like the CSAM debacle that's still unresolved, this is a tool that has a quite easy to understand benefit for those that are using it. I…

Except they're not aware of the cost to them so it's not actually consent, and I can't stop them from sending apple or google a message to help track me if i turn one of my bluetooth devices on.

Re: Apple AirTags draining battery of devices close by

#158

Post by scrollaway »

bgro wrote: post #95

This was a concern I had since day 0. I have been asking about things like this and been talked down to constantly as if I don't know how bluetooth works... My other concern was if these are hijacking your data plan. Maybe it's not that significant amount if you have a huge plan but like Ting for example gives you 100MB of data usage each month on their basic plan. That's MEGAbytes. I checked my system clock app for…

> If you're a cargo delivery guy and someone decides to ship 500 airtags for fun that you walk by, are you now just screwed in over charges

No because AirTags have to be enabled and registered before they become part of the network. At shipping time their battery is not plugged in.

Re: Apple AirTags draining battery of devices close by

#159

Post by Schroedingersat »

Nextgrid wrote: post #4

An annoyance that is driving me away from the Apple ecosystem is the lack of choice when it comes to these new features - they are forced onto you with no way to disable them and sometimes radically modify the behavior of the device you purchased and may make it unsuitable for the original purpose you bought it for. I'm still using an iPhone and plan to get the new SE (and only because of Touch ID is back - Face ID w…

> Some things are worse, but at the very least I can be confident that once I do get a setup that works it'll likely stay working for years without breaking overnight because someone at

Microsoft are working on fixing this soon

Leave now before turning off secure boot is disabled

Re: Apple AirTags draining battery of devices close by

#160

Post by Krasnol »

duxup wrote: post #46
Krasnol wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't the only "bug" though. The use of it as a stalking device should be widely known already.

Any old phone can be used too, any number of it devices available online.

None of those are so cheap, small, with such a good battery life and does not require GPS.

Please don't be so ignorant. It's been a topic several times over.

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