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Moscow retaliates against Western sanctions with export bans

reuters.com

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Re: Moscow retaliates against Western sanctions with export bans

#131

Post by TheCoelacanth »

nickthegreek wrote: post #83
jquery wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of this stops the day Russia stops attacking Ukraine, it’s not like Russia is a helpless victim here. Edit: I agree there will be reverberating consequences. Criminals have to pay their debt to society. Russia is already deep in a hole. Even if this war stops today, their economy is set back many years. The economic might of the peaceful world is being used to make an example of a warmongering nation. But Russia…

Even if the sanctions stop, I don't know if all the companies that left will come back the next week, month or year. There is restitution that needs to happen.

I don't think it's restitution that the companies care about. It's the perceived instability that will keep them from going back in.

They had to pull out once at great cost. They're going to expect that they might need to pull out again if they go back in.

Re: Moscow retaliates against Western sanctions with export bans

#132

Post by Ourgon »

tomjen3 wrote: post #130
tguvot wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but can Russia feed itself I saw some article on this topic, apparently 100% of "material" for inseminating cows is imported. Also like 80% of wheat seeds and majority of potato seeds (or whatever). Something similar with chicks

My grandad was a farm worker back in the old days before artificial insermination. You used to have a guy drive by with a bull, and it would take care of the process for you. Much more damming, for Russia anyway, is that they apparently don’t have a single factory producing ballbarings. That isn’t going to be an issue for a while, and then it is really going to be an issue.

> Much more damming, for Russia anyway, is that they apparently don’t have a single factory producing ballbarings

They'll just get them from Ukraine which has plenty of such factories.

Re: Moscow retaliates against Western sanctions with export bans

#133

Post by type0 »

sandworm101 wrote: post #114
vnchr wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They waited to go to war until after the Beijing Olympics, in coordination with China [0]. And China has been cheering them on [1]. Looks like someone made a friend. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/02/us/politics/russia-ukrain... [1] https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/03/10/china/china-russia-disinf...

Crimea was invaded days after the 2014 Sochi games. The rest of Ukraine days after the 2022 Beijing games. It's becoming a Russian tradition.

If China allows after 2026 Winter Olympics it will be the Kazakhstans turn.

Re: Moscow retaliates against Western sanctions with export bans

#134

Post by dalbasal »

sandworm101 wrote: post #107
bryanlarsen wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keynes said: "Anything we can actually do, we can afford". Money is just a way of divvying up the productive capacity of a country, so not being able to afford a country's own production is either a preference for foreign trade or a distribution problem. Not that is much comfort to Russian's -- Russia has a massively unequal distribution of wealth.

Keynes was not a farmer. Nobody can afford to not plant during planting season, not harvest during harvest. There are all sorts of things that a country is capable of doing at time A that will spell their doom come time B.

This is true, but Keynes was just encouraging a macro perspective, in that statement.

An economy, by definition, can afford it's output.

It's still true that what we build, destroy, deplete and such affect the future. All keyenes was trying to spell out was that we can't really save or borrow from the future outside of these kinds of things. Economic output doesn't store like that.

Re: Moscow retaliates against Western sanctions with export bans

#135

Post by trekky1700 »

erichocean wrote: post #96
bryanlarsen wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keynes said: "Anything we can actually do, we can afford". Money is just a way of divvying up the productive capacity of a country, so not being able to afford a country's own production is either a preference for foreign trade or a distribution problem. Not that is much comfort to Russian's -- Russia has a massively unequal distribution of wealth.

> Russia has a massively unequal distribution of wealth. The Netherlands has the highest wealth inequality in the world.[0] No one considers that some backwater country, or its people starving or somehow impoverished. There's more that's going in Russia than "a massively unequal distribution of wealth." [0] https://uweb.berkeley.edu/2021/04/11/the-duality-of-the-dutc... It's also the oldest country to implement capit…

For some reason, the linked article claims the Netherlands has a Gini coefficient of 0.902 but the linked source claims a Gini coefficient of 0.281, significantly lower.

I can find no other sources claiming a Dutch Gini coefficient higher than 0.3 at any point in recent history. A Gini coefficient of 0.902 is practically unheard of, perhaps the article was written in error? Seems strange to put so much effort into writing an article without checking the source or questioning the number.

By comparison, Russia's Gini coefficient is 0.375 with the noted caveat that it can be very hard to track the true wealth of the most powerful Russians. The United States is 0.414 according to same source.

Re: Moscow retaliates against Western sanctions with export bans

#136

Post by erichocean »

trekky1700 wrote: post #135
erichocean wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russia has a massively unequal distribution of wealth. The Netherlands has the highest wealth inequality in the world.[0] No one considers that some backwater country, or its people starving or somehow impoverished. There's more that's going in Russia than "a massively unequal distribution of wealth." [0] https://uweb.berkeley.edu/2021/04/11/the-duality-of-the-dutc... It's also the oldest country to implement capit…

For some reason, the linked article claims the Netherlands has a Gini coefficient of 0.902 but the linked source claims a Gini coefficient of 0.281, significantly lower. I can find no other sources claiming a Dutch Gini coefficient higher than 0.3 at any point in recent history. A Gini coefficient of 0.902 is practically unheard of, perhaps the article was written in error? Seems strange to put so much effort into wr…

From How The Dutch Economy Shows We Can't Reduce Wealth Inequality With Taxes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot4qdCs54ZE

> The Netherlands skew falsely high on the GINI coefficient because house loans are insured by the state, causing many families to technically be in large debt, beyond the value of their houses.

That makes it hard to trust the wealth numbers, e.g. things like "the top 10% of the country owns 60% of the wealth" (according to the OCED). The bottom 60% of the country owns "almost no" wealth. It also explains why, if you visit The Netherlands, it doesn't seem like it is struggling with inequality…

Source: https://www.oecd.org/netherlands/OECD2015-In-It-Together-Hig...

Re: Moscow retaliates against Western sanctions with export bans

#137

Post by [deleted] »

erichocean wrote: post #136
trekky1700 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason, the linked article claims the Netherlands has a Gini coefficient of 0.902 but the linked source claims a Gini coefficient of 0.281, significantly lower. I can find no other sources claiming a Dutch Gini coefficient higher than 0.3 at any point in recent history. A Gini coefficient of 0.902 is practically unheard of, perhaps the article was written in error? Seems strange to put so much effort into wr…

From How The Dutch Economy Shows We Can't Reduce Wealth Inequality With Taxes : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot4qdCs54ZE > The Netherlands skew falsely high on the GINI coefficient because house loans are insured by the state, causing many families to technically be in large debt, beyond the value of their houses. That makes it hard to trust the wealth numbers, e.g. things like "the top 10% of the country owns 60%…

[deleted]

Re: Moscow retaliates against Western sanctions with export bans

#138

Post by late2part »

mulmen wrote: post #12
late2part wrote: post #6

I can't find data to support my speculation but I'll share it anyway: 1. The things the west has banned importation from Russia, and the things that Russia is banning exportation of, may not be the same. Therefore, Russia may cause pain by blocking the export of some things that were previously available. 2. The West previously controlled when the end of this trade blockage happens. Now Russia also controls this and…

Russia was always in control of when this ends. They can simply leave Ukraine.

It's not obvious that the sanctions end when Russia leaves Ukraine.

Re: Moscow retaliates against Western sanctions with export bans

#139

Post by rasz »

zdragnar wrote: post #10
kriops wrote: post #2

Maybe someone can enlighten me, but is this not the equivalent of saying "You can't fire me - I quit"? Are there any practical consequences from this besides symbolism?

Some few Russian products are in high demand. Natural gas, as others have said. Russia is the third biggest supplier of nickel, and iirc the biggest supplier of high grade nickel- a key component in many applications, not the least of which is in lithium batteries. London recently had to suspend nickel trading because the price was astronomically high. There will be no getting off of fossil fuels without nickel, and…

>London recently had to suspend nickel trading because the price was astronomically high.

Chinese owned LME suspended Nickel trading because: "China's Tsingshan Holding Group, one of the world's top nickel and stainless steel producers, had been building a short position in nickel since last year, betting prices would fall, three sources familiar with the matter said."

It was a short squeeze and Chinese company was about to lose a shitton of money so they closed the market to cover their own.

Re: Moscow retaliates against Western sanctions with export bans

#140

Post by rurban »

type0 wrote: post #133
sandworm101 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crimea was invaded days after the 2014 Sochi games. The rest of Ukraine days after the 2022 Beijing games. It's becoming a Russian tradition.

If China allows after 2026 Winter Olympics it will be the Kazakhstans turn.

More like Georgia. In Kazakhstan the threat are socialists only
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