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DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

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Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#691

Post by colordrops »

kube-system wrote: post #66
freediver wrote: post #22

I guess this did not age well: “[W]hen you search, you expect unbiased results, but that’s not what you get on Google,” @matthewde_silva quotes @yegg https://twitter.com/DuckDuckGo/status/1114524914227253249 Also, they probably do not realize that they will have to start with Twitter if to be consistent.

"unbiased" doesn't mean "unfiltered". For example, I don't want spam or malware in my search results. Search results should return good information that is relevant to your query, and filter out anything that is not that.

We aren't talking about spam or malware here though. We are talking about an entire country's media sources.

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#692

Post by DangitBobby »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #401
Tainnor wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Iraq war was wrong and stupid, it should never have happened. But that's just whataboutism. It doesn't make the Ukraine war or Russian disinformation any better to point out that the United States have messed up spectacularly more than just once. One difference, though, is that GWB never put anyone in prison for talking about the Iraq "war" or about how much the US government lied about WMD. > Is it because NATO…

The central point is that you need access to information to determine if a war is wrong and stupid. It is clear how censorship and propaganda can alter perception of who is the the good or bad guy.

And what happens when you can't tell what "information" is true in any reasonable timeframe, making it impossible for normal people (or actually anyone at all) to discern fact from fiction? Tough titty, those people just get to believe misinformation? It's not anyone's responsibility to suppress lies? I will never agree with that position. In a better world, the truth can be identified just by reading carefully. This isn't that world.

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#693

Post by Morgawr »

Morgawr wrote: post #625
Clubber wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most people only ever look at the first page of results when searching for answers, and, let's be honest, take those answers for the truth. Do you? The argument I'm hearing is that most people are stupid and those stupid people aren't smart enough to know better, so the smart people need to control their lives to "protect them." I'm not sure if you realize this but this was the same argument used to perpetuate slave…

The vast majority of people, absolutely, yes. I try to always look for alternative sources and look for "all sides" when it comes to news and stuff, but even I will admit 100% that I will not bother going past the first page of search results. If anything I'll make another search with more biased keywords to look for what I am actually interested in, but I'll rarely if ever go past the first page of results. I consid…

To add for future readers, since the post I was replying to was edited and I can't edit mine anymore, I'm not calling people stupid. The original post was putting into question the fact that most people only read the first page of results, hence my response.

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#694

Post by DangitBobby »

choward wrote: post #16
diego_moita wrote: post #11

Good! One more reason for me to remain a DDG user. This is the behaviour of responsible and accountable adults. "Censoring" is a word very badly understood and prone to manipulation. There are a lot of circumstances where suppression of information/opinion is justified: protecting intellectual property and copyrights, blocking doxing, prevent haters from doing harm against others, protection of military secrets or pe…

> In case someone hasn't noticed, there is a war going on in Europe. That is a circumstance where some of these cases apply. There's a saying: "Truth is the first casualty in war." The last thing I want during a war is censorship. Why should I magically start trusting the government and media now? > If this sounds just like "legalese" to you consider this: a newspaper has the right to select and editorialize the news…

Truth is also a casualty when all truth is drowned out by a deluge of lies and nonsense. It's not as simple as you wish. You want to live in a trustless society where there needs be no curation of truth, but it's simply not practical, and it never has been.

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#695

Post by DangitBobby »

kweingar wrote: post #460
colinmhayes wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are a search engine. Exactly. people go to search engines looking for information about things. If the search engine returns lies it's completely failed. > who cares if the results are manipulated? Not sure if you've noticed, but there's an entire industry built around manipulating search engine results. If the search engines don't fight back the only thing that will be left is corporate and government bullshi…

> If the search engine returns lies it's completely failed If I search for Time Cube, should a search engine refuse to show me a link to its webpage?

Maybe.

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#696

Post by 0x38B »

hnuser847 wrote: post #18
diego_moita wrote: post #11

Good! One more reason for me to remain a DDG user. This is the behaviour of responsible and accountable adults. "Censoring" is a word very badly understood and prone to manipulation. There are a lot of circumstances where suppression of information/opinion is justified: protecting intellectual property and copyrights, blocking doxing, prevent haters from doing harm against others, protection of military secrets or pe…

> In case someone hasn't noticed, there is a war going on in Europe. That is a circumstance where some of these cases apply. Indeed, there's a war going on and there's a tremendous amount of propaganda being circulated from both sides. The question is, why is DDG okay with amplifying Ukranian/NATO propaganda and not Russian propaganda? Is it because NATO is the "good" guy and Russia is the "bad" guy? When the US inva…

As a sibling said: there is a side with justice and truth on their side, and it’s not Russia.

Russia attacked Ukraine. Russia has been bombing, is bombing, and continues to bomb residential areas, hospitals, and schools in Ukrainian towns. The lies that the Kremlin spouts are so far-fetched that some Right-wing outlets here in the US parrot those lies as truth - “Nazis”, etc.

Russia also has a very powerful misinformation machine that is working now more than ever.

So I’ll take a little amplification of Ukrainian/NATO propaganda. At the very least, their claims of self-defense more than check out.

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#697

Post by lern_too_spel »

jessaustin wrote: post #683
lern_too_spel wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for Fox News, which breathlessly covered every new possible chemical weapons facility that the US captured, mainstream media pretty quickly concluded that there was no extant chemical weapons program in Iraq after the US entered. Russian media is still pretending that Ukraine is the aggressor, and there is no war.

I was alive and watching the news back then, and this is bullshit. NYT didn't admit their screw-up until over a year after the war began. [0] I'm not sure CNN ever admitted it. Even worse, every time the previous ridiculous theory of war was exposed as nonsense, they were eager to transfer to the next ridiculous theory: WMDs, Saddam supposedly harboring aQ, fostering democracy, saving the Shiites, saving the women, s…

I was alive and watching the news, and you're completely wrong about TV news and the NY Times reporting, which freely admitted that Iraq didn't have a chemical weapons program (except for Fox News, which kept reporting that this time we found it without ever reporting that the last time wasn't what they suggested). The only thing that took a while was the apology for believing Bush administration sources in the run-up to the war.

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#698

Post by lern_too_spel »

kuraudo wrote: post #674
lern_too_spel wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for Fox News, which breathlessly covered every new possible chemical weapons facility that the US captured, mainstream media pretty quickly concluded that there was no extant chemical weapons program in Iraq after the US entered. Russian media is still pretending that Ukraine is the aggressor, and there is no war.

Still waiting for the war crimes tribunal for the American military + Bush and friends.

There isn't going to be one for Russia either. That doesn't mean that the news media in the US is tightly controlled government propaganda or that the news media in Russia isn't.

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#699

Post by perryizgr8 »

Retric wrote: post #669
HeckFeck wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, this move by DDG will have the opposite effect of what is intended. I will now trust my own media and sources even less, if they rely on silencing the competition and insist on controlling what I access "for my own good". Such dirty tactics are insulting, even more so when delivered under a sneering benevolent guise. As if they have perfect knowledge of my motives and wishes. What if I'm genuinely curious as…

Should DDG show flat earth websites on basic searches about the earth? That’s not about silencing the competition that’s about doing the basic functions you’re looking for in a search engine. Delisting would be another story as people may legitimately want to find flat earth content, but this isn’t delisting the content is still there you just need to specifically look for it.

> Should DDG show flat earth websites on basic searches about the earth?

It should if that's what their unbiased parameters bubble up. What's bs is hardcoded censorship/downranking of searches based on (geo)political ideology of the ddg owners.

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#700

Post by eyelidlessness »

freediver wrote: post #22

I guess this did not age well: “[W]hen you search, you expect unbiased results, but that’s not what you get on Google,” @matthewde_silva quotes @yegg https://twitter.com/DuckDuckGo/status/1114524914227253249 Also, they probably do not realize that they will have to start with Twitter if to be consistent.

Seems consistent to me.
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