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DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

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Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#601

Post by analyte123 »

archagon wrote: post #504
hnuser847 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In case someone hasn't noticed, there is a war going on in Europe. That is a circumstance where some of these cases apply. Indeed, there's a war going on and there's a tremendous amount of propaganda being circulated from both sides. The question is, why is DDG okay with amplifying Ukranian/NATO propaganda and not Russian propaganda? Is it because NATO is the "good" guy and Russia is the "bad" guy? When the US inva…

> The question is, why is DDG okay with amplifying Ukranian/NATO propaganda and not Russian propaganda? Because one side is busy shelling and starving civilians right now? Are you seriously suggesting that "NATO propaganda" (WTF?) and Russian propaganda are somehow equivalent? There is very, very obviously a "bad guy" here, and most of the world (even outside the US/NATO sphere of influence) seems to agree on this po…

Here's an unclassified 82 page report on NATO information operations [1], which designates a role for a Deception Officer and indeed defines that,

>Deception involves measures designed to mislead adversaries by manipulation, distortion or falsification.

Nor is the overall function limited to the "adversary", for example on page 23 you can read that Info Ops are performed to create "desired effects on the will and understanding of...approved parties", which include "potential adversaries, decision makers, cultural groups, [and] elements of the international community".

I'm not saying that NATO is necessarily in the wrong to do these things in this situation, but it's certainly a bit naive to think that both sides are not fighting in the information space.

[1] https://info.publicintelligence.net/NATO-IO.pdf

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#602

Post by awb »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #454
awb wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a query you would use to search exclusively for Russian propaganda?

search rt.com Now blocked in several countries.

Really?

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=rt&ia=web

Works fine for me in the US. RT.com is the first result.

What countries are you referring to? And is this DDG’s decision or are they being forced to comply with the country’s law?

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#603

Post by awb »

bobobob420 wrote: post #574
awb wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We expect them to filter spam and scams. If RT / Sputnik use SEO to target the keyword “Ukraine conflict”, it creates a worse experience for users. Right now RT is not on the top page for that search term. I’m guessing that’s what they’re targeting. If you search “rt Ukraine conflict”, the #1 result is RT. You can still easily find content you’re looking for. It just won’t be part of those wide net searches I’m guess…

They did not state anything about seo spam. You are just assuming. They stated they are down ranking domains associated with Russian disinformation, meaning they are censoring Russia. If it was SEO spam then the fix for that would benefit all of search. I highly doubt they care about that, they are introducing censorship by domain on the basis the content served by the domain is not correct. Very tricky to actually v…

> If it was SEO spam then the fix for that would benefit all of search.

SEO spammers co-opt legit techniques, so there’s no 1 size fits all solution. Google has to ban and penalize sites all the time.

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#604

Post by nyxtom »

I wish search could be hierarchically visualized so I didn't have to page through several hundred articles of the exact same thing being reported for the exact same quotations for the exact same events. Deduplication, hierarchical organization would allow me to see true variance among a topic rather than use a very limited way of ranking relevance. I want perspective, not top 10 exact same things being said.

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#605

Post by tonguez »

archagon wrote: post #504
hnuser847 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In case someone hasn't noticed, there is a war going on in Europe. That is a circumstance where some of these cases apply. Indeed, there's a war going on and there's a tremendous amount of propaganda being circulated from both sides. The question is, why is DDG okay with amplifying Ukranian/NATO propaganda and not Russian propaganda? Is it because NATO is the "good" guy and Russia is the "bad" guy? When the US inva…

> The question is, why is DDG okay with amplifying Ukranian/NATO propaganda and not Russian propaganda? Because one side is busy shelling and starving civilians right now? Are you seriously suggesting that "NATO propaganda" (WTF?) and Russian propaganda are somehow equivalent? There is very, very obviously a "bad guy" here, and most of the world (even outside the US/NATO sphere of influence) seems to agree on this po…

“ Because one side is busy shelling and starving civilians right now?”

well technically the ukranians were doing the shelling first, starting on february 17th, killing ethnic russians in donbas. but you probably dont know that bc of the censorship. so basically you want propaganda amplified because you arent aware it’s propaganda, and have no way of figuring out it’s propaganda bc you want everything else to be censored.

“ There is very, very obviously a "bad guy" here, and most of the world (even outside the US/NATO sphere of influence) seems to agree on this point.”

no not really, china and india dont agree and thats half the world

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#606

Post by nyxtom »

paxys wrote: post #194

Judging by the replies to this thread, I don't think anyone here knows what an algorithm is. How do you think any search engine on the planet "objectively" decides how to show you the top 10 results for a search term out of billions of possibilities? There are a thousand knobs constantly being turned behind the scenes depending on the preferences of the operator. "Non-biased search results" are impossible by definiti…

The long term solution is to get away from "top 10 results". All this has done is provide a stream of effectively the exact same thing being said just across different platforms. It doesn't provide people with perspective, it just becomes a system for gamification. I want perspective, deduplication, and some way of seeing everything hierarchically.

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#607

Post by specialist »

HeckFeck wrote: post #153
freediver wrote: post #22

I guess this did not age well: “[W]hen you search, you expect unbiased results, but that’s not what you get on Google,” @matthewde_silva quotes @yegg https://twitter.com/DuckDuckGo/status/1114524914227253249 Also, they probably do not realize that they will have to start with Twitter if to be consistent.

For me, this move by DDG will have the opposite effect of what is intended. I will now trust my own media and sources even less, if they rely on silencing the competition and insist on controlling what I access "for my own good". Such dirty tactics are insulting, even more so when delivered under a sneering benevolent guise. As if they have perfect knowledge of my motives and wishes. What if I'm genuinely curious as…

Does your email provider filter spam?

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#608

Post by nerdponx »

mopsi wrote: post #541
kikokikokiko wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole Ukraine war teached me a thing I haven't noticed before: I simply can't trust ANY media, search engine, or social network anymore. It's a sad state of affairs, but since the invasion started my only source of "news" related to the war is a few, and I a said a FEW, Youtube channels. I'm brazilian and one channel I recommend is Fernando Ulrich's channel. He interviewed (in english) a lot people (ukrainians,…

> I simply can't trust ANY media, search engine, or social network anymore. It's one of the key goals of Russian information warfare: to create a feeling that you can't tell truth apart from fiction, and to force you into apathy and paralyze you, so you become unable to act and protect your interests. Russians are among the largest pushers of conspiracy theories from Covid to QAnon, and have been for a very long time…

> It's one of the key goals of Russian information warfare

This was also overtly one of the goals of Trump's political messaging. In the past, American politicians merely hid or distorted unpleasant facts. Trump and his political strategists instead attacked the problem head-on, tapping into populist skepticism and anti-intellectualism in order to promulgate the idea that all truth is relative and that correctness is a matter of opinion.

Of course, all politicians benefit from this state of affairs. Hence all this empty "fact-checking" that actually just exacerbates the problem.

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#609

Post by tonguez »

paxys wrote: post #194

Judging by the replies to this thread, I don't think anyone here knows what an algorithm is. How do you think any search engine on the planet "objectively" decides how to show you the top 10 results for a search term out of billions of possibilities? There are a thousand knobs constantly being turned behind the scenes depending on the preferences of the operator. "Non-biased search results" are impossible by definiti…

i know what an algorithm is and it doesn't involve some human making a decision to remove russian content from the internet.

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#610

Post by tonguez »

michaelmrose wrote: post #148
TehShrike wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

analysts and historians saying "it's complicated"

But its not complicated at all. Ukraine is every year more prosperous and more connected to the west and Russia is weakening kleptocracy led by a disconnected, malicious, evil dictator that fears that if it doesn't seize the opportunity to return to its vision of a greater Russia that has a seat at the table in the grand scheme of things that it will ultimately be subsumed by either the west or by its own people who…

“ Ukraine is every year more prosperous”

jesus christ. stopped reading here

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