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DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

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Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, this move by DDG will have the opposite effect of what is intended. I will now trust my own media and sources even less, if they rely on silencing the competition and insist on controlling what I access "for my own good". Such dirty tactics are insulting, even more so when delivered under a sneering benevolent guise. As if they have perfect knowledge of my motives and wishes. What if I'm genuinely curious as…

This whole Ukraine war teached me a thing I haven't noticed before: I simply can't trust ANY media, search engine, or social network anymore. It's a sad state of affairs, but since the invasion started my only source of "news" related to the war is a few, and I a said a FEW, Youtube channels. I'm brazilian and one channel I recommend is Fernando Ulrich's channel. He interviewed (in english) a lot people (ukrainians,…

> I simply can't trust ANY media, search engine, or social network anymore.

It's one of the key goals of Russian information warfare: to create a feeling that you can't tell truth apart from fiction, and to force you into apathy and paralyze you, so you become unable to act and protect your interests. Russians are among the largest pushers of conspiracy theories from Covid to QAnon, and have been for a very long time, because it is cheap and very effective way to divide free societies into infighting groups. NYC station chief of Russian foreign intelligence used to visit public libraries to post conspiracy theories on Geocities in 1990s -- that's how important it was and remains.

They flood all available channels with utter nonsense to make people turn their brains off. Just today a general and the spokesperson for Russians Ministry of Defense tried to justify the war by saying that the United States was training migratory birds in secret Ukrainian laboratories to carry dangerous pathogens into Russia: https://redd.it/tb6sn8 Antivaxx groups have already switched to parroting such crap, because many of them are seeded by Russia.

By the way, Mearsheimer is an idiot and nobody takes him seriously in Eastern Europe. You might as well read books by Nazis explaining why Germans had the right to Lebensraum in the East. Instead of precompiled knowledge provided by TV talking heads or authoritative-appearing "experts", I recommend building up knowledge from basic building blocks. Start by reading general histories of the regions you are interested in to understand historic difficulties that people in those places have faced over the past several centuries and what their current goals and motivations are. Then you don't need Mearsheimers to tell you what's going on, you can derive it from your knowledge. This applies to everything else too. If you know a thing or two about basic statistics, then you're much less likely to fall for bullshit narratives like Covid conspiracy theories from people who look trustworthy. Knowledge is power.

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#542
post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if it was about misinformation than surely they would want to down-rank all misinformation equally - if they had capability to do so in the first place They don't have that capability. DuckDuckGo also doesn't have the capability to surface only correct JS code when I search for a programming concept. There isn't a binary here, all manual upranking and downranking of any content is always playing whack-a-mole, none…

"search engines don't base rankings off of tlds" Of course they do. By country: so .ca will rank better in Canada$and .in India by domain rank .com ranks higher than .biz

Yep, fair point, you're probably right about that. I was thinking more TLDs like .net vs .com and forgot about the regional side of things, even though I had just mentioned it for ranking based on language.

I guess on that note, I also vaguely remember that .com/.net differentiation was something that people tried in various contexts (not sure if searching was one of them) before we all figured out, "wait, this doesn't mean anything about quality other than which one you chose to buy."

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#543
> "...Like so many others I am sickened by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and the gigantic humanitarian crisis it continues to create. #StandWithUkraine"

Thanks Gabriel, Thanks DDG for the action beyond just words!

Every bit of support to Ukraine now is adding up and should show the unity against the subversion, hell, the perversion! of human values, freedoms, and history.

Plurality of opinions, freedom of speech, access to multitude of sources, and free flow of information are what the current Russian state has long considered as the West's weak points, prone to the "active measures". At present it's clear that the Russian state's disdain for these values has gone beyond mere manipulation and distortion.

Now this is an outright extension of Russia's war arsenal.

Sowing distrust and confusion is their way to try to distract and indeed disable the critical minds of anyone who's touched by the barbaric consequences of the Russian state's ongoing invasion of Ukraine.

In this case I consider the down-ranking not as a censure, but rather as an active call for using oneself's critical thinking, beyond the Russian state's manufactured justifications and "truths of the day".

Discussion and personal reflections about this war and the global crisis it has precipitated is the very least anyone can presently do. Taking a practical standing beyond just words and showing solidarity and support to Ukraine in this unfair and mindless war started against it requires integrity and courage. Thank you!

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#544
post #82

Anyone upset about down ranking propaganda need to get their priorities straight. Why would you want to use a search engine that serves intentionally bad information?

Considering rags like WSJ, NY Times, Economist, CNN and Al Jazeera doesn’t have the same consequences it seems like the only propaganda you’re opposed to is the propaganda you disagree with.

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#545
post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The source and purpose of the bias matters for a search engine. One thing to be biased against duplicate content and stuffed keywords, another thing is to have bias against blue widgets because the CEO of the company does not like blue widgets.

flat-earthers would probably also feel they're being unfairly downranked because "the CEO does not like flat-earthers", however. Factual untruth is a good reason for a result to be considered low-relevance to a tangentially related search.

The correct analogy in this case would be if there were both 'square earthers' and 'flat earthers' and DDG decides to penalize only results from 'flat earthers'. Both sides produce factual untruth but only one gets penalized.

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's insane to me that people don't think this way. The mainstream US media, in perfect lockstep with the gov, told us all that iraq had weapons of mass destruction, and then we found out it was a complete fabrication. And most of those people still have jobs!

I remember following news during the buildup to that war. It was fairly obvious that those WMD claims was weak, and that was definitely brought up in the news. While I was mostly following European sources, so American sources might have been less insistent on that. But seriously, if your country wants to go to war, and local news sources is the only thing you look at. Then you aren't trying very hard to stay informe…

I'm reminded a little bit of a clip[0] in which an AP reporter challenged a State Department official about some of his claims about the Russian plans for a war on Ukraine. It's aged in a weird way, because of course, the war happened - but it does show the weird dynamic at play between journalists, the people, and the state security apparatus.

Essentially, they can't give you the details. Sometimes they lie, for national security, operational security, or even pathological, political reasons.

I guess the one takeaway that's stuck in my mind from this morass is that the people who led us to war in Iraq should have gone to jail. That would have been the only way to maintain the integrity of the security apparatus they misused to trick their nations into going along with it.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4PbCiHOtR8

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#548
post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Good information", almost synonymous with "truth", is not subjective. It is objective, observable fact. The fact that is a lot of disagreement, propaganda, and lies concerning that truth does not render it subjective.

Absolutely, but then who is responsible for judging what is true and what is false? And why should I trust those people not only to be correct all the time, but also to never fall victim to their own biases when making these decisions? The point is that there is no such thing as a perfect arbiter of truth. I may trust a friend with whom I have a close personal relationship to always tell me the truth, but it seems fo…

I see this comment in so many forms across many channels. “Oh no, there is no truth anymore!” (Sorry if I sound a bit pedantic)

But that’s not truth either. While gaining a 20/20 truth picture is hard, it’s not impossible to get a picture that’s accurate enough.

Lots of information can be lock-stepped into a picture that gives enough clarity. A combination of experts, reports and documentation, high quality sources, context awareness, and people I know around the globe gives me a good enough picture.

Also the message that there is no such thing as truth is exactly what disinformation strategists want to amplify.

Yes it’s worrying, but not unsolvable.

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. I think it's reasonable to ask DuckDuckGo to apply more rigorous standards across the board. I'll offer a weak note in their defense that I suspect part of the reason they don't is specifically to avoid sliding down a slippery slope and breaking this balance between neutrality and editorial decisions about content. I suspect that DuckDuckGo would say that there is a volume and kind of misinformation happening h…

> However, I don't think it's unreasonable at all to disagree with them on that assessment, and I think it's extremely reasonable to ask why DuckDuckGo feels safer about downranking certain kinds of misinformation and feels nervous about taking stances about other misinformation. It may look like that on a first glance, but assuming even spread of 100M DDG users, those users from Russia, China, India, Indonesia, Midd…

Erm. Quite possibly my fault for chaining too many modifiers together, but I'm not sure you read my comment correctly.

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#550
post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The question is, why is DDG okay with amplifying Ukranian/NATO propaganda and not Russian propaganda? Because one side is busy shelling and starving civilians right now? Are you seriously suggesting that "NATO propaganda" (WTF?) and Russian propaganda are somehow equivalent? There is very, very obviously a "bad guy" here, and most of the world (even outside the US/NATO sphere of influence) seems to agree on this po…

Quoted post unavailable.

> If you consider the NATO expansion over the last few decades around Russia, it was completely sensible for Russia to preemptively take aggressive action.

This is reprehensible

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