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Moscow retaliates against Western sanctions with export bans

reuters.com

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Re: Moscow retaliates against Western sanctions with export bans

#111

Post by georgecmu »

sandworm101 wrote: post #30

The Iron Curtain cut through the heart of Europe, dividing east from west. Curtain 2.0 looks to be forming only around Russia, walling it off from all of Europe. Things will be so much worse for people on the inside this time. It will be like Soviet Russia without the Warsaw Pact to support it. It is one thing to be without Twitter and Hollywood movies, but can Russia feed itself? Can any country? Modern industrial a…

Russia is a leading producer and exporter of wheat, corn, and fertilizer [1][2]. The question you may want to ask is whether the rest of the world be able to feed itself if Russia loses access to its markets [3]?

[1] https://www.rbth.com/business/332948-russia-leading-wheat-ex...

[2] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-04/russia-ca...

[3] https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2022/0309/1285347-world-foo...

Re: Moscow retaliates against Western sanctions with export bans

#112

Post by sandworm101 »

zdragnar wrote: post #10
kriops wrote: post #2

Maybe someone can enlighten me, but is this not the equivalent of saying "You can't fire me - I quit"? Are there any practical consequences from this besides symbolism?

Some few Russian products are in high demand. Natural gas, as others have said. Russia is the third biggest supplier of nickel, and iirc the biggest supplier of high grade nickel- a key component in many applications, not the least of which is in lithium batteries. London recently had to suspend nickel trading because the price was astronomically high. There will be no getting off of fossil fuels without nickel, and…

There is plenty of nickel in Canada (Sudbury Basin). Raise the price a little and there will be plenty of non-Russian nickel available around the world.

Re: Moscow retaliates against Western sanctions with export bans

#113

Post by vernie »

jquery wrote: post #47
sandworm101 wrote: post #30

The Iron Curtain cut through the heart of Europe, dividing east from west. Curtain 2.0 looks to be forming only around Russia, walling it off from all of Europe. Things will be so much worse for people on the inside this time. It will be like Soviet Russia without the Warsaw Pact to support it. It is one thing to be without Twitter and Hollywood movies, but can Russia feed itself? Can any country? Modern industrial a…

All of this stops the day Russia stops attacking Ukraine, it’s not like Russia is a helpless victim here. Edit: I agree there will be reverberating consequences. Criminals have to pay their debt to society. Russia is already deep in a hole. Even if this war stops today, their economy is set back many years. The economic might of the peaceful world is being used to make an example of a warmongering nation. But Russia…

Not now that Russia is nationalizing all the businesses that pulled up stakes.

Re: Moscow retaliates against Western sanctions with export bans

#114

Post by sandworm101 »

vnchr wrote: post #91
sandworm101 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For now. But we are already seeing a few chinks in that armor. China prizes stability. Countries that start wars over imagined slights do not promote stability. China's largesse is not unlimited nor does it ever come without a price.

They waited to go to war until after the Beijing Olympics, in coordination with China [0]. And China has been cheering them on [1]. Looks like someone made a friend. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/02/us/politics/russia-ukrain... [1] https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/03/10/china/china-russia-disinf...

Crimea was invaded days after the 2014 Sochi games. The rest of Ukraine days after the 2022 Beijing games. It's becoming a Russian tradition.

Re: Moscow retaliates against Western sanctions with export bans

#115

Post by seanmcdirmid »

georgecmu wrote: post #111
sandworm101 wrote: post #30

The Iron Curtain cut through the heart of Europe, dividing east from west. Curtain 2.0 looks to be forming only around Russia, walling it off from all of Europe. Things will be so much worse for people on the inside this time. It will be like Soviet Russia without the Warsaw Pact to support it. It is one thing to be without Twitter and Hollywood movies, but can Russia feed itself? Can any country? Modern industrial a…

Russia is a leading producer and exporter of wheat, corn, and fertilizer [1][2]. The question you may want to ask is whether the rest of the world be able to feed itself if Russia loses access to its markets [3]? [1] https://www.rbth.com/business/332948-russia-leading-wheat-ex... [2] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-04/russia-ca... [3] https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2022/0309/1285347-world-foo...

Russia's top agriculture export markets are Kazakhstan, Belarus, China, Ukraine and Turkey. Out of those, Ukraine and Turkey probably can't be count on to remain open with sanctions. But the "rest of the world" seems open if we just assume that China is Russia's main agri importer.

Re: Moscow retaliates against Western sanctions with export bans

#116

Post by seanmcdirmid »

whatever1 wrote: post #63
vnchr wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’ve got plenty of opportunities with China.

And China will not not notice that it is the sole buyer of Russian products? What Putin did to Ukraine, made Russia smaller and weaker, and there is no going back.

China wants to export a bunch of stuff to Russia as well. They aren't going to ruin that two way relationship just to get a discount on agri imports.

Re: Moscow retaliates against Western sanctions with export bans

#117

Post by cmurf »

ComradePhil wrote: post #40
mulmen wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia was always in control of when this ends. They can simply leave Ukraine.

Quoted post unavailable.

Absurd.

Sovereign nations have the right to associate, or not, with other nations. And the Russian Federation is party to a treaty, the Budapest Memorandum, recognizing Ukraine's sovereignty and its 1994 borders, without restrictions what countries it can associate with or how.

This is a textbook case of an aggressive war, the supreme international crime, as were the invasions of Georgia in 2009 and Ukraine in 2014. There is a track record here, and Russia is party to the U.N. charter, and yet it has directly violated Articles 1, 2, 33, and 39.

Russia already has been given security guarantees which it is a party to. But Putin has just torn up all the prior relevant important agreements. Why bother with yet another agreement he'd presumably just reneg on?

And now Finland, Sweden, Moldova, Georgia, and Ukraine are looking to either join NATO or the EU as a result of Putin's actions. On what basis should they be refused when it is Russia who just started a war of aggression for the first time since WW2? The Putin regime cannot be trusted.

https://newlinesmag.com/reportage/russias-ex-foreign-ministe...

Re: Moscow retaliates against Western sanctions with export bans

#118

Post by jjoonathan »

willcipriano wrote: post #19
toyg wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they extend them to gas, we Euros are fucked hard.

If I was him I'd shut it down and use environmental retoric to justify it. "We should leave it in the ground, what about future generations?" sort of stuff. The mental gymnastics would be Olympic level.

There's a "mental gymnastics doping scandal" joke somewhere in there.

Re: Moscow retaliates against Western sanctions with export bans

#119

Post by erichocean »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #101
erichocean wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russia has a massively unequal distribution of wealth. The Netherlands has the highest wealth inequality in the world.[0] No one considers that some backwater country, or its people starving or somehow impoverished. There's more that's going in Russia than "a massively unequal distribution of wealth." [0] https://uweb.berkeley.edu/2021/04/11/the-duality-of-the-dutc... It's also the oldest country to implement capit…

Russia has inequality, poverty and widespread sanctions. Getting rid of just one of those three factors would allow them to afford food.

> Getting rid of just one of those three factors would allow them to afford food.

According to the USDA, 37 million Americans are food insecure.[0]

I'd like Americans to be able to afford food. What factors do you think are preventing that in the US? Is it inequality? Poverty? Something else? (We don't have sanctions as far as I know.)

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/02/magazine/food...

Re: Moscow retaliates against Western sanctions with export bans

#120

Post by tablespoon »

sandworm101 wrote: post #60
vnchr wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’ve got plenty of opportunities with China.

For now. But we are already seeing a few chinks in that armor. China prizes stability. Countries that start wars over imagined slights do not promote stability. China's largesse is not unlimited nor does it ever come without a price.

> For now. But we are already seeing a few chinks in that armor. China prizes stability. Countries that start wars over imagined slights do not promote stability. China's largesse is not unlimited nor does it ever come without a price.

China definitely prizes domestic stability, but its current leadership is also not keen on a stable US-led international order.

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