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Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

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Re: Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

#91

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

trhway wrote: post #78
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Power of propaganda is truly terrifying. Many, if not majority, of my American and Israeli acquaintances of Russian origin think that Putin is heroically liberating Ukraine from Nazis. They watch Russian TV channels.

Interesting. Nobody of Russian origin i know supports Putin/Russia on that. I wonder if it is age - my circle is mid-age and older (many experienced 198x in USSR), mostly tech workers, and i don't remember any mentioning the Russian TV.

Yup, mine are older and not tech

Re: Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

#93

Post by starkd »

edgyquant wrote: post #46
starkd wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he's referring to the Maidan revolution pushed in the region back in 2014. They led them with promises of NATO/EU membership, and then left them hanging when war finally broke out. You can reasonably conclude they had no intention to actually fight it out. https://mate.substack.com/p/by-using-ukraine-to-fight-russia...

It’s cute you blame the west for this. Russia started an asymmetric war with Ukraine specifically because it knew NATO won’t except a new member until they shore up border disputes etc. Again this is the international relations equivalent of beating your wife because she wanted a divorce. It doesn’t make her being beat her fault or her new boyfriends. It’s your fault for beating her up.

It's interesting you read that as blaming the West. The article literally starts out calling the Russian invasion of Ukrain illegal and condemns it unequivocally. That doesn't mean the West's actions were not escalatory. When you lead a country with promises of NATO membership and protection, actions you KNOW will be provocative, you better be prepared to defend it. The West did not do this.

Re: Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

#94

Post by vmception »

hamstergene wrote: post #70
vmception wrote: post #27

I've been thinking about how to get through to more Russian people, and its something I've had a lot of success doing with many people that live in an alternate reality, where we cannot even agree on perception. Censorship and speech restrictions aside, many Russians really think this is a peacekeeping mission that has no bloodshed. Adding to frustration of Ukrainian residents calling their own family members in Russ…

After 2011 protests, even before Crimea and this war, I already gave up talking politics with my parents because of unfair difference in amount of exposure: you spend maybe 30 minutes per week dismantling the nonsense in their heads, then the TV spends 6+ hours per week refilling the vessel back full. Propaganda's arguments are not holding because they are credible, in my experience they are easy and take under 3-5 e…

Along with questions I also pile on absurdities - I take their reality and add more to how it should work - that make them have to explain the canon

For example, to flat earthers I would say “gravity works because of the 6 magnetic poles, which we could verify if the UN gunships let us past the ice walls” and theyd be like “exactly, the UN! 6 poles?” and I would keep adlibbing from there until I start questioning my own sources and describing a spherical rotating reality

Re: Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

#95

Post by starkd »

astrange wrote: post #17
starkd wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No that's not what he's saying. They were led with the promise of NATO/EU membership with no intention to back it up. https://mate.substack.com/p/by-using-ukraine-to-fight-russia...

Aaron Maté's journalism consists of reposting things Konstantin Kilimnik told him which is why he's spent the last few years claiming every political story mentioning Russia is fake, they've never hacked the US, etc. If Russia didn't want Ukraine to turn towards the EU, they shouldn't have annexed the parts of Ukraine containing all the citizens who didn't want to do it.

The article literally starts out condemning the Russia's invasion as illegal. That doesn't mean the West did not bungle this or should be exempt from criticism. When you lead a country with promises of NATO protection, when you KNOW it is going to be provocative, you better be prepared to defend it. The West did not do this and offered no real plan for this circumstance. We shouldn't be afraid to criticize our own government, when it fails.

Re: Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

#96

Post by AutumnCurtain »

edgyquant wrote: post #79
nwienert wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you’re against the Monroe doctrine? Thoughts on the Cuban Missile crisis? Did you see the clip of Biden in the 80s saying the only thing that would turn Russia hostile would be the Baltic states joining NATO? Finally, are you familiar with what happened in 08, 14, and 19, and the clear Russian warnings after each?

Whataboutism is the tool of useful idiots. I also don’t give two fucks what Russia “warns” us or anyone about. That literally just proves my point that you and all these other apologists believe that Russia should be the decider of what sovereign nations near them can do. This is the exact reason all these nations beg to join NATO instead of having to be forced into it.

It's funny, whataboutism was always touted as the preferred tactic of Russian trolls, but I never had the chance to actually see them deploy it on a relevant topic. Now that there is one, my God, they're shameless, aren't they? To the point where if an actual human said these things to you in person you'd recommend a psychiatrist to them.

But forget about all that, what about the Monroe doctrine?

Re: Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

#97

Post by starkd »

smsm42 wrote: post #77
starkd wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he's referring to the Maidan revolution pushed in the region back in 2014. They led them with promises of NATO/EU membership, and then left them hanging when war finally broke out. You can reasonably conclude they had no intention to actually fight it out. https://mate.substack.com/p/by-using-ukraine-to-fight-russia...

War didn't "break out". It wasn't some natural disaster that just happened with no fault of anybody. Putin waged the war, because he felt he could take Ukraine for himself and nobody would stop him. The evil will of Russian government, determined to deny Ukrainian people the rights to freedom and self-determination, combined with weakness of the West, and continued strategy of appeasement (has it ever worked?), led t…

The West was wholly unprepared for this scenario. Even though they led them to believe NATO would be there for them (without specifically offering it). When you wage a campaign with the intended effect of bringing it into NATO, something you know is going to be provocative, you should be very prepared to defend it. This is a collosal failure of diplomacy.

Re: Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

#98

Post by sp332 »

smsm42 wrote: post #72
sp332 wrote: post #32

@TProphet and his company, AwardCat, has offered to link up your airline miles and credit card rewards points with Ukrainian refugees who need flights out of Europe. https://twitter.com/sep332/status/1500563022842114066

I there a way to contact the offer author without twitter? I don't have a twitter account.

Maybe https://www.award.cat/contact

Re: Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

#99

Post by edgyquant »

nwienert wrote: post #83
edgyquant wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whataboutism is the tool of useful idiots. I also don’t give two fucks what Russia “warns” us or anyone about. That literally just proves my point that you and all these other apologists believe that Russia should be the decider of what sovereign nations near them can do. This is the exact reason all these nations beg to join NATO instead of having to be forced into it.

You’re totally captured by propaganda, and unable to debate even one meaningful point.

I don’t entertain bad faith actors.

Re: Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

#100

Post by edgyquant »

AutumnCurtain wrote: post #96
edgyquant wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whataboutism is the tool of useful idiots. I also don’t give two fucks what Russia “warns” us or anyone about. That literally just proves my point that you and all these other apologists believe that Russia should be the decider of what sovereign nations near them can do. This is the exact reason all these nations beg to join NATO instead of having to be forced into it.

It's funny, whataboutism was always touted as the preferred tactic of Russian trolls, but I never had the chance to actually see them deploy it on a relevant topic. Now that there is one, my God, they're shameless, aren't they? To the point where if an actual human said these things to you in person you'd recommend a psychiatrist to them. But forget about all that, what about the Monroe doctrine?

It’s crazy isn’t? I’m not sure what’s worse that they continue to try it even though it’s so obvious as to be funny or that it actually works on a lot of social media.
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