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Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court

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Re: Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court

#121

Post by ffpip »

oh_sigh wrote: post #52
roofio wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They made a mode where you assemble a team of players from past and present called Fifa Ultimate Team (FUT). You start with a team of players who each of a rating of about 70. EA will release packs that contain star players with much higher ratings. In order to get these higher rated players on your team, you can either grind the game for several hours a day or pay to open some packs that might have the high rated pl…

Grinding the game to open the boxes sounds fine to me, but how is it not a game of chance if you're just paying money to open a box? That's literally a lottery. Even if only 8% of boxes are opened that way, they should just not allow it flat-out.

> how is it not a game of chance if you're just paying money to open a box

The player(s) you receive when you open the box is random and not known before you open the box.

Re: Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court

#122

Post by me_me_me »

klyrs wrote: post #109
mFixman wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure my parents would disagree that Pokémon trading cards weren't a giant money sink designed to take their money. I can see a lot of problems with giving children access to credit cards, but I honestly fail to see how loot boxes are different from trading cards marketed to children. My high school enacted and enforced a ban on all card and board games because some parents were worried about child gambling; I'm s…

It was Magic the Gathering for my age group. Thankfully(?!) my school had bigger problems to deal with vis a vis gang activity including actual drug dealing; we were just a few quiet mostly-white nerds that played Magic in a math teacher's room at lunch. But, I never spent my parents' money. I earned my dollars-a-week allowance doing chores, and started blowing it on Magic cards. My parents did grow concerned when th…

Its anticipation vs instant gratification.

You needed to get the money and then make it to the shop that sells packs. It takes time and planning. Get money - maybe earn it by doing chores - go to shop and get the reward. While this might be problematic when thinking about gambling aspect it still taught you work => reward which is positive character building lesson for a child.

Versus use dad's credit card to get dopamine hit of opening the lootbox. Also almost entirely lootboxes are useless as you cannot sell the content, unlike the cards. And companies are introducing new ones with new rewards you NEED to get. I fail to see any positives for a child development here.

It sounds like trading cards and lootboxes are the same but its clearly not if you think about it.

Re: Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court

#123

Post by mFixman »

krageon wrote: post #118
mFixman wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did we have different childhoods, or do you not really forget yours? Children used to steal trading cards and have violent fights over them. Only a few dedicated nerds played the game; the rest just collected the cards and showed them as a proxy of self-worth. This is perfectly normal child behaviour, and I'm sure it was much worse than whatever's happening right now with lootboxes. The main difference between them i…

> Children used to steal trading cards and have violent fights over them. This is messed up - is this real or overstated? > This is perfectly normal child behaviour Stealing and fighting? Where would this be the case?

Maybe "violent fights" wasn't the right phrase here. I was talking about the usual boy light violent play.

Re: Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court

#124

Post by oneoff786 »

alpaca128 wrote: post #99
oneoff786 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what universe would you want an aesthetic item later more than you do now? Fear of missing out seems to be more experiential or with regards to items that may turn out to be have more utility in the future in my opinion.

Do you really know whether you like an album after listening to a song once? Enough to buy it? Maybe, maybe not. What if you had to decide today, and might never be able to listen to that album again if you don't buy it? You might regret it later... That's the kind of manipulation we see in some games. I don't think this should be considered normal. The same applies to Nintendo's Switch games that were only available…

The outdated mess of buying music aside… no? I don’t think so. It’s pretty much never once happened that I thought “I wish I had bought that” aside from literal investments which is a different beast entirely. Most unowned things have less appeal to you when they’re no longer new and shiny.

Re: Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court

#125

Post by cinntaile »

me_me_me wrote: post #122
klyrs wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was Magic the Gathering for my age group. Thankfully(?!) my school had bigger problems to deal with vis a vis gang activity including actual drug dealing; we were just a few quiet mostly-white nerds that played Magic in a math teacher's room at lunch. But, I never spent my parents' money. I earned my dollars-a-week allowance doing chores, and started blowing it on Magic cards. My parents did grow concerned when th…

Its anticipation vs instant gratification. You needed to get the money and then make it to the shop that sells packs. It takes time and planning. Get money - maybe earn it by doing chores - go to shop and get the reward. While this might be problematic when thinking about gambling aspect it still taught you work => reward which is positive character building lesson for a child. Versus use dad's credit card to get dop…

> And companies are introducing new ones with new rewards you NEED to get.

You don't NEED to get lootboxes.

Re: Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court

#126

Post by jpambrun »

mFixman wrote: post #39
ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #8

This is so disheartening. I work as an admin in a school that serves all grades, and the impact that this stuff has on kids is very real. I've witnessed first-hand a grown in sort of a "gambling" culture amongst kids, as early as elementary school. While loads of us may have had fun experiences trading cards and whatnot, this all still happens with kids but with a much more overt monetary component. Part of me, thoug…

I'm sure my parents would disagree that Pokémon trading cards weren't a giant money sink designed to take their money. I can see a lot of problems with giving children access to credit cards, but I honestly fail to see how loot boxes are different from trading cards marketed to children. My high school enacted and enforced a ban on all card and board games because some parents were worried about child gambling; I'm s…

I am a parent and I agree that pokemon cards business model is predatory and a giant sink designed to exploit kids into harassing parents into spending money.

You have to be blind not to see that.

Re: Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court

#127

Post by jeegsy »

_fat_santa wrote: post #28
ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #8

This is so disheartening. I work as an admin in a school that serves all grades, and the impact that this stuff has on kids is very real. I've witnessed first-hand a grown in sort of a "gambling" culture amongst kids, as early as elementary school. While loads of us may have had fun experiences trading cards and whatnot, this all still happens with kids but with a much more overt monetary component. Part of me, thoug…

> While loads of us may have had fun experiences trading cards and whatnot, this all still happens with kids but with a much more overt monetary component. The more I think about it, the more I realize loot boxes to kids now are what trading card packs were to kids back in the day. When I was in elementary school, I was deep into Yu-Gi-Oh! cards. Card packs ran ~$4 and carried the chance that you got a super powerful…

I don't think it matters a whole lot whether or not there are any differences between lootboxes and TCs. I think there are but let's assume they are identical. So what? I know that I had TCs growing up yet I find lootboxes so infuriating that I have almost entirely stopped playing games created after 2015.

Re: Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court

#128

Post by me_me_me »

cinntaile wrote: post #125
me_me_me wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its anticipation vs instant gratification. You needed to get the money and then make it to the shop that sells packs. It takes time and planning. Get money - maybe earn it by doing chores - go to shop and get the reward. While this might be problematic when thinking about gambling aspect it still taught you work => reward which is positive character building lesson for a child. Versus use dad's credit card to get dop…

> And companies are introducing new ones with new rewards you NEED to get. You don't NEED to get lootboxes.

yeah as a grown adult you dont.

Do you know what is an insult for kids these days?

"Default"

Meaning you are too poor to buy skins in online games.

Your argument is poor at best,actually its broken at so many levels.

"You don't need to take heroin you can just stop."

In fifa you need to buy them to have a equal chance vs other players (pay to win)

Re: Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court

#129

Post by cinntaile »

me_me_me wrote: post #128
cinntaile wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And companies are introducing new ones with new rewards you NEED to get. You don't NEED to get lootboxes.

yeah as a grown adult you dont. Do you know what is an insult for kids these days? "Default" Meaning you are too poor to buy skins in online games. Your argument is poor at best,actually its broken at so many levels. "You don't need to take heroin you can just stop." In fifa you need to buy them to have a equal chance vs other players (pay to win)

> "You don't need to take heroin you can just stop."

This analogy doesn't make sense. An addiction can't be compared to social pressure.

> In fifa you need to buy them to have a equal chance vs other players (pay to win)

Lootboxes are usually cosmetics instead of pay to win, I'm talking about the cosmetics kind to be clear.

Re: Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court

#130

Post by oneoff786 »

arrosenberg wrote: post #96
oneoff786 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why wouldn’t this social prestige effect exist if skins were released at the same rate but were permanently available?

It would still exist. The difference is the artificial scarcity is gone, so customers aren't under time pressure to purchase them. They are free to do so as they are reasonably able to afford it.

If it’s a social prestige thing then you’re likely to want the latest fashion though. So… the time pressure is still there, because the value of yesterday’s fashion quickly falls.
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