Man given genetically modified pig heart dies • Hacker News Board

Re: Man given genetically modified pig heart dies

#201

Post by calvano915 » Thu, Mar 10, 2022, 7:57 AM UTC

forum_ghost wrote: post #170

bradly wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He says he is committed to and I assume he has good intentions. He isn’t drinking or smoking, but water intake, salt intake, and red meat have been more challenging for his willpower/discipline. Also, I have no idea if matters or not but he is wealthy (low eight digits) as well.

Neither of those is a medical contradiction to receiving a transplant. Smoking is the big no-no because it is fairly well proven to impair healing and increases chances of failure. Evidence against red meat is very weak, and contradictory. Some studies show no harmful effects from non-processed red meat at all. In fact, there is just as much evidence against plant-based diets (they just aren't discussed widely due to…

Instead of contradiction, I believe you mean contraindication.

I'm also in agreement that cessation of alcohol and smoking are much more reasonable requirements for placement on the list than other dietary patterns that are highly individual regarding effects on overall health.

Re: Man given genetically modified pig heart dies

#202

Post by krageon » Thu, Mar 10, 2022, 8:15 AM UTC

justinator wrote: post #174

heyoni wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is probably how they got approval to do a pig heart transplant in the first place since he would never get on the transplant list.

He also basically murdered someone via stabbing so kudos for giving his body to science, but there's a case that he should have spent his life in prison.

> there's a case that he should have spent his life in prison.

Why? Normally you do this because you want people that cannot reform to stay away without resorting to murder. This person was gravely ill, which is it's own prison.

Re: Man given genetically modified pig heart dies

#203

Post by robbiep » Thu, Mar 10, 2022, 8:27 AM UTC

xeromal wrote: post #167

robbiep wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For ‘catch it early’ you are talking screening. That’s why there’s cervical cancer screening (pap smear/the new cytology test), mammograms, faecal occult blood tests, in australia skin cancer screening, etc. And that’s why people should have a regular doctor and that’s why as you get older you see your doctor more frequently. But for young(ish) otherwise healthy people, the whole concept of something ther occurs annu…

Shouldn't you at least do regular blood panels to check for prediabetes and the like?

If a person is otherwise healthy, no. Or at least, there is no medical indication to do so. But a person with pre diabetes is not generally otherwise healthy. T2DM is not a condition of a healthy person, it is a lifestyle disease caused by lack of exercise, poor diet and obesity. This person should see a doctor, but they’re not a healthy person. They should be aiming to exercise and reduce body mass.

Re: Man given genetically modified pig heart dies

#204

Post by robbiep » Thu, Mar 10, 2022, 8:32 AM UTC

thaway2839 wrote: post #83

robbiep wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Preventative care is different from the concept of all round comprehensive annual physical as it has been propagated through the culture from the American experience (I practice in Australia, so am talking from what I see from time working there, and the trickle through effect culturally of Australians thinking this is something they ‘have’ to have). Preventative care consists of positive health messages (smoking ces…

Annual checkups are just that. 1) Body weight measurements. 2) The doctor talking to you about whether you have any medical or life concerns. 3) The doctor sharing advice on diet improvements, smoking improvements, exercise plans, including providing resources for them. 4) Recommended screenings based on age. 5) 1-2 vials of blood to get basic health information such as glucose levels, vitamin levels, etc. 6) Urine s…

Let me be really clear, everyone should have a doctor. But the concept of an annual checkup, as though there is a process to it and if you haven’t been to the doctor in the last 12 months is something you have to go through, is not part of general medical care. For the average under 30, and even under 40 male, with no family history, you are literally just pissing money away ordering annual vitamin, hormone and at some level lipid levels (although occasional checks are definitely useful).

Re: Man given genetically modified pig heart dies

#205

Post by ejolto » Thu, Mar 10, 2022, 9:04 AM UTC

InitialLastName wrote: post #177

xeromal wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can go to quest diagnostics or labscorb and order yourself a test for under 200$ (no insurance needed) that would do an entire panel on you. I did this and then called a teledoc for like 40$ (copay) and had them go over hte results with me. It's pretty sweet.

> called a teledoc for like 40$ (copay) So, more like $7400 annually [0], plus a $40 copay, discounting whatever other health care you needed in the year. [0] https://www.kff.org/report-section/ehbs-2020-section-6-worke...

If you make 100K a year in Canada you pay $29,986 in taxes of which about a third goes to healthcare, so $10000 annually and you still won't get tested preventatively.

Re: Man given genetically modified pig heart dies

#206

Post by MathCodeLove » Thu, Mar 10, 2022, 10:18 AM UTC

sacrosancty wrote: post #200

MathCodeLove wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It likely varies hospital to hospital and region to region. I would hope it's more often the case than not though. I'm an organ donor and I wouldn't be happy to find out that my liver went to an alcoholic that wasn't making a strong effort at sobriety.

Do you know how arrogant that is? Alcoholics aren't people who deserve to die because of some kind of moral failing. Very often they're alcoholic because of other mental health problems or abuse. Would you want to deny a clininically depressed person your liver because they might commit suicide?

Im a recovering alcoholic myself, don't lecture me. I didn't say they deserve to die. But if they can't stay sober they don't deserve a liver over someone else who may need it more.

Re: Man given genetically modified pig heart dies

#207

Post by WayCoolJr » Thu, Mar 10, 2022, 11:02 AM UTC

seb1204 wrote: post #198

s1artibartfast wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Preventative medicine is well understood and widely available. People just aren't interested or unresponsive to treatment.

This. I know a doctor who was heading the liver transplant list. Patients would come in, be diagnosed and told they need to live healthier, do this and do that as part of the preventative measures. Clear medical advice. Habitual change is the hardest in my view and this is also how this story continues. Over the course of time these patients will visit regularly. Their condition is worsening and the preventative medi…

When it becomes evident that "clear medical advice" isn't working, then maybe we should dig another level deeper and find out WHY it isn't working. Shifting the blame to the patients when you have most that are failing is, in my opinion, bad medicine.

Re: Man given genetically modified pig heart dies

#208

Post by blagie » Thu, Mar 10, 2022, 11:08 AM UTC

Supermancho wrote: post #3

He lasted 2 months. For reference, artificial hearts generally do 130 days - (2018) https://syncardia.com/patients/media/blog/2018/08/seven-thin... with some notable outliers that live for years, and human to human transplant is about 9 years. Usually it's some related systemic problem that kills you under these conditions eg consistent brain clotting causing stroke or organ failure due to drug cocktails.

... seems like a genetically-engineered pig's heart could avoid eventually be engineered to avoid some of those problems. It's science fiction, but quickly heading towards science, to engineer hearts which don't require quite the same cocktail of hearts. Cells would need to present the same way as the patient, so the engineering would need to be specific to each patient (which also means the patient needs to wait for the pig to grow old enough).

Re: Man given genetically modified pig heart dies

#209

Post by tonyedgecombe » Thu, Mar 10, 2022, 12:11 PM UTC

throwawaycities wrote: post #171

throwaway290 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how having had COVID opens doors (eg. quarantine not required when traveling to some countries, and your example), but at the same time people are punished for not preventing it (vaccination, PPE). Talk about mixed incentives...

> (eg. quarantine not required when traveling to some countries, and your example) For policies like quarantine following travel does it make any sense to distinguish anyone whether they have had covid, had a vaccine, had both a vaccine and covid, or had neither a vaccine or covid? Aren’t all of the above equally capable of carrying and transmitting the virus?

>Aren’t all of the above equally capable of carrying and transmitting the virus?

No. If I had Covid a month ago and recovered then baring a compromised immune system or new variant I am not going to get it again this month. So I am not "equally capable of carrying and transmitting the virus" compared to someone who "had neither a vaccine or covid".

Re: Man given genetically modified pig heart dies

#210

Post by ncmncm » Thu, Mar 10, 2022, 12:53 PM UTC

bradly wrote: post #160

judge2020 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that hospitals specifically only put you on the list if you committed to a healthy lifestyle.

He says he is committed to and I assume he has good intentions. He isn’t drinking or smoking, but water intake, salt intake, and red meat have been more challenging for his willpower/discipline. Also, I have no idea if matters or not but he is wealthy (low eight digits) as well.

Chances are sugar intake is a bigger strain on his liver than the salt, but US doctors never tell people to eliminate sugar.