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Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

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Re: Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

#61

Post by dghlsakjg »

adventured wrote: post #45
dylan604 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure where you are from, but even the "mighty USofA military" could not supply its troops during the scurmishes this century. Many care packages from military parents were shipping things like bullet proof jackets etc. Some military personal were even purchasing armor for their humvees and other gear out of their own pockets. Militaries the world over are their own hell of bureaucracy

You're using temporary stories to stretch to an extrapolation that it was a longer-term context, when it wasn't. The US ramped up its armoring of humvees, built and supplied vast numbers of entirely new highly armored vehicles, and ramped up its supply of vests for soldiers. The US could supply its own troops and did. It wasn't lacking capability or funding to do so. It's borderline silly to try to compare the Ukrain…

It wasn’t a case of not enough resources it was a case of too much of some and too little of others.

Up armored vehicles are great, but if your mission is patrolling goat paths you need good boots. If you need a set of good boots ASAP, having a bunch of up armored trucks won’t help you.

Just because you have the budget doesn’t mean that it was spent in the right places every time.

Re: Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

#62

Post by adventured »

riku_iki wrote: post #57
adventured wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US GDP > GDP of China + India + Pakistan + Brazil. Global reserve currency = USD. Pakistan? Ha, comeon. Now let's add in the other US allies (EU GDP is ~$16t-$17t, roughly equal to China; Canada and Australia both have economies larger than Russia). And we're just getting warmed up. Most of the global economic might is with the US and its allies. Russia can be successfully smashed economically, and it'll be far easie…

It doesn't matter. What matters is that they (China + India + Pakistan + Brazil + 100 other countries) will continue buying Putin's oil.

Like they're buying oil from Venezuela, Syria and Iran?

There's five to six million barrels per day the US pulled off the market (that it can put back, and choke off Russia instead).

Russia can be smashed economically, and that includes gradually choking off the potency of their energy sector (even if it can't be entirely crushed).

Give the US a small bit of time to ramp production and it'll happily replace three million barrels per day of Russia's oil production at $90-$120 / barrel.

Re: Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

#63

Post by qaq »

nwienert wrote: post #58
edgyquant wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also goes off the assumption that the nations bordering Russia aren’t rational actors or independent polities capable of choosing their own path (or, apparently, being allowed to,)

So you’re against the Monroe doctrine? Thoughts on the Cuban Missile crisis? Did you see the clip of Biden in the 80s saying the only thing that would turn Russia hostile would be the Baltic states joining NATO? Finally, are you familiar with what happened in 08, 14, and 19, and the clear Russian warnings after each?

Russia is no longer a super power the faster they come too terms with it the better it will be for everyone.

Re: Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

#64

Post by dylan604 »

adventured wrote: post #45
dylan604 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure where you are from, but even the "mighty USofA military" could not supply its troops during the scurmishes this century. Many care packages from military parents were shipping things like bullet proof jackets etc. Some military personal were even purchasing armor for their humvees and other gear out of their own pockets. Militaries the world over are their own hell of bureaucracy

You're using temporary stories to stretch to an extrapolation that it was a longer-term context, when it wasn't. The US ramped up its armoring of humvees, built and supplied vast numbers of entirely new highly armored vehicles, and ramped up its supply of vests for soldiers. The US could supply its own troops and did. It wasn't lacking capability or funding to do so. It's borderline silly to try to compare the Ukrain…

No, that's not what I'm doing. I'm suggesting that there are times when it is faster to go through side channels vs red tape offical channels type of thing.

You're reading too much into my comment in a very disingenious manner.

Re: Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

#65

Post by throwaway_1928 »

stavros wrote: post #11
cr__ wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh?

He's saying the invasion is Ukraine's fault for trying to not get invaded. It's the international politics version of "look what you've done, you made me hit you".

Professor John Mearsheimer explained this 7 years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4

Re: Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

#66

Post by riku_iki »

adventured wrote: post #62
riku_iki wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter. What matters is that they (China + India + Pakistan + Brazil + 100 other countries) will continue buying Putin's oil.

Like they're buying oil from Venezuela, Syria and Iran? There's five to six million barrels per day the US pulled off the market (that it can put back, and choke off Russia instead). Russia can be smashed economically, and that includes gradually choking off the potency of their energy sector (even if it can't be entirely crushed). Give the US a small bit of time to ramp production and it'll happily replace three mil…

> Like they're buying oil from Venezuela, Syria and Iran?

I think it is different case, US says they will prosecute/sanction anyone who do business with those countries.

US didn't apply such measures on Russia. In my understanding, EU is still buying Russian oil and gas and doesn't have plans of banning it.

Re: Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

#67

Post by tguvot »

RF_Savage wrote: post #36
tguvot wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they already sell it to china but for lower price

60% of exports are to Europe and the pipelines feeding Europe are not connected to the one's used to transport gas to China. So a switch just cannot be flipped. It's a major infrastructure project.

i know. it looked like whoever posted above wasn't aware that russia currently sells gas to china, so I clarified this point.

Re: Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

#68

Post by heavyset_go »

edgyquant wrote: post #49
heavyset_go wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Russia needs to protect itself from NATO encroachment" is a common talking point that excuses the attack and implies that Ukraine and/or NATO somehow forced Russia to invade Ukraine.

It also goes off the assumption that the nations bordering Russia aren’t rational actors or independent polities capable of choosing their own path (or, apparently, being allowed to,)

Yeah, the attitude it's pushing is that Russia can do whatever they want, but if its neighbors do the same, then that's unacceptable.

Re: Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

#69

Post by zoomablemind »

i67vw3 wrote: post #55
riku_iki wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only US, EU and allies (partially), there are plenty of countries (China, India, Pakistan, Brazil, etc) who didn't join the sanctions.

I don't think these countries care about ukraine-russia conflict the way the western world cares. Humans have biases due to tribalist nature. That is why last year no one gave a shit about the Armenia-Nagorno-Karabakh-Azerbaijan conflict. That is why no ones gives a shit about Ugyghurs. So, West cares about ukraine, christians care about armenia, muslims care about palestian, jews care about israel, pakistan cares ab…

> ...So, western users (people) think that all the world is caring about ukraine the way they are doing, but it may be not like that.

Sure the whole world *is* caring. This is the first time in many decades (since, what, the Caribbean Crisis?) that a major nuclear arms nation, that also is a veto-holding member on the UN Sec Council, has threatened to be ready to use its nuclear arsenal against anyone daring to interfere against its brutal and premeditated invasion of a sovereign nation.

None of the existing checks and balances, like the UN, or bi/multi-lateral treaties, nor the "world police" is currently able to do any direct military action to counter the brazen actions of the Russian Federation against Ukraine.

Everyone witnesses the nuclear weapons being already "used" unilaterally by Russia, without being physically launched.

That is the nuclear deterrent as we've known it has been eroded. This cannot not catch attention of any state, nuclear or not. The whole world got less secure overnight Feb-24, 2022.

Re: Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

#70

Post by hamstergene »

vmception wrote: post #27

I've been thinking about how to get through to more Russian people, and its something I've had a lot of success doing with many people that live in an alternate reality, where we cannot even agree on perception. Censorship and speech restrictions aside, many Russians really think this is a peacekeeping mission that has no bloodshed. Adding to frustration of Ukrainian residents calling their own family members in Russ…

After 2011 protests, even before Crimea and this war, I already gave up talking politics with my parents because of unfair difference in amount of exposure: you spend maybe 30 minutes per week dismantling the nonsense in their heads, then the TV spends 6+ hours per week refilling the vessel back full.

Propaganda's arguments are not holding because they are credible, in my experience they are easy and take under 3-5 exchanges until the person wiggles and tries to change the topic. Propaganda is holding because quantity beats quality, and in this case by a lot. Real people eventually give up while full-time paid astroturfers stay.

But even now, when talking to my parents, one snarky question is often enough to break the confidence. I can't emphasize the word question enough, people never start thinking unless they are asked a question. No need for any lectures, proof links, it does not even have to be a particularly smart question, if you just get them thinking they do all the bullshit-clearing job themselves. That is, until they turn on TV again :(

I'm not gonna pretend that I understand how things work, but I have a strong feeling the key is exposure and asking questions, rather than better rhetorics.

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