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Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

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Re: Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

#41

Post by exdsq »

riku_iki wrote: post #38
exdsq wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this includes cash too. Look at the World Bank for one example.

I don't think World Bank finances Ukrainian Army. Also, could you share any link?

The world bank isn't funding the Ukrainian Army no, but it's giving 3/4 of a Billion dollars for other costs. My point is that donations pale in comparison to these state actors and I don't believe that Ukraine will lose this war because of a lack of a few million dollars. This money could have a much larger impact directed to other conflicts around the world, for example. Maybe I'm wrong and happy to be persuaded!

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60657127

Re: Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

#42

Post by riku_iki »

exdsq wrote: post #41
riku_iki wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think World Bank finances Ukrainian Army. Also, could you share any link?

The world bank isn't funding the Ukrainian Army no, but it's giving 3/4 of a Billion dollars for other costs. My point is that donations pale in comparison to these state actors and I don't believe that Ukraine will lose this war because of a lack of a few million dollars. This money could have a much larger impact directed to other conflicts around the world, for example. Maybe I'm wrong and happy to be persuaded! h…

> but it's giving 3/4 of a Billion dollars for other costs.

Correct, and person asks to donate to the army.

> I don't believe that Ukraine will lose this war because of a lack of a few million dollars.

In asymmetrical urban warfare few millions in right equipment perfectly can make huge difference.

Re: Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

#44

Post by edgyquant »

heavyset_go wrote: post #26
exdsq wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any point of making these donations seeing so many billions are being sent by nation states? Is there a bottleneck where the Ukrainian Armed Forces need first aid kits but are unable to get them because of a lack of funds? I've thought about donating to these sorts of organisations but I question the actual efficiencies of doing so. Edit: I also worry that funding the continuation of this war will increase t…

Yes, because funds are often earmarked, and it is the smaller organizations on the ground that are able to meet the needs of the people in their communities. It's the same reason that food pantries and organizations like Meals on Wheels are important despite the existence of SNAP and Social Security. Those organizations work directly with communities at a low-level to meet the needs that aren't met by high-level prog…

That’s a great analogy and helped me to understand how smaller donations can be effective

Re: Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

#45

Post by adventured »

dylan604 wrote: post #25
exdsq wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any point of making these donations seeing so many billions are being sent by nation states? Is there a bottleneck where the Ukrainian Armed Forces need first aid kits but are unable to get them because of a lack of funds? I've thought about donating to these sorts of organisations but I question the actual efficiencies of doing so. Edit: I also worry that funding the continuation of this war will increase t…

Not sure where you are from, but even the "mighty USofA military" could not supply its troops during the scurmishes this century. Many care packages from military parents were shipping things like bullet proof jackets etc. Some military personal were even purchasing armor for their humvees and other gear out of their own pockets. Militaries the world over are their own hell of bureaucracy

You're using temporary stories to stretch to an extrapolation that it was a longer-term context, when it wasn't. The US ramped up its armoring of humvees, built and supplied vast numbers of entirely new highly armored vehicles, and ramped up its supply of vests for soldiers.

The US could supply its own troops and did. It wasn't lacking capability or funding to do so. It's borderline silly to try to compare the Ukraine situation with the US situation. They're not similar.

Re: Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

#46

Post by edgyquant »

starkd wrote: post #12
cr__ wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh?

I think he's referring to the Maidan revolution pushed in the region back in 2014. They led them with promises of NATO/EU membership, and then left them hanging when war finally broke out. You can reasonably conclude they had no intention to actually fight it out. https://mate.substack.com/p/by-using-ukraine-to-fight-russia...

It’s cute you blame the west for this. Russia started an asymmetric war with Ukraine specifically because it knew NATO won’t except a new member until they shore up border disputes etc. Again this is the international relations equivalent of beating your wife because she wanted a divorce. It doesn’t make her being beat her fault or her new boyfriends. It’s your fault for beating her up.

Re: Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

#47

Post by romwell »

adventured wrote: post #45
dylan604 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure where you are from, but even the "mighty USofA military" could not supply its troops during the scurmishes this century. Many care packages from military parents were shipping things like bullet proof jackets etc. Some military personal were even purchasing armor for their humvees and other gear out of their own pockets. Militaries the world over are their own hell of bureaucracy

You're using temporary stories to stretch to an extrapolation that it was a longer-term context, when it wasn't. The US ramped up its armoring of humvees, built and supplied vast numbers of entirely new highly armored vehicles, and ramped up its supply of vests for soldiers. The US could supply its own troops and did. It wasn't lacking capability or funding to do so. It's borderline silly to try to compare the Ukrain…

It looks like you are missing the point of it comment you're responding to.

They know that the US has all the money and capability to supply the troops.

And yet, there were many cases of troops on the ground lacking essential supplies and equipment.

It's one of those "it takes 6 months to move a box from one shelf to another in IBM" kind of things.

Hence the usefulness of direct and local relief efforts. Hence me linking to those first.

Re: Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

#48

Post by adventured »

sydthrowaway wrote: post #14
sergiotapia wrote: post #8

The entire western world basically sanctioned the hell out of Russia. Let's see how long that bloodlusted animal lasts.

Won't work because he's making $1bn/day from energy supply.

It'll merely pad some of the damage, not all of it, and not for the majority of the Russian population.

It also takes a long time (in the context of a war) to train up effective new soldiers to replace dead soldiers and to replace large amounts of destroyed hardware, particularly given Russia's meager manufacturing capabilities. Putin likely gets one shot at taking Ukraine (and that's right now), regardless of the inbound oil money.

It'll take a decade of bountiful oil money for Russia's military to recover from this disaster.

Re: Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

#49

Post by edgyquant »

heavyset_go wrote: post #23
cr__ wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh?

"Russia needs to protect itself from NATO encroachment" is a common talking point that excuses the attack and implies that Ukraine and/or NATO somehow forced Russia to invade Ukraine.

It also goes off the assumption that the nations bordering Russia aren’t rational actors or independent polities capable of choosing their own path (or, apparently, being allowed to,)

Re: Appeal to Ruby Community from Kharkiv Rubyist

#50

Post by ModernMech »

astrange wrote: post #17
starkd wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No that's not what he's saying. They were led with the promise of NATO/EU membership with no intention to back it up. https://mate.substack.com/p/by-using-ukraine-to-fight-russia...

Aaron Maté's journalism consists of reposting things Konstantin Kilimnik told him which is why he's spent the last few years claiming every political story mentioning Russia is fake, they've never hacked the US, etc. If Russia didn't want Ukraine to turn towards the EU, they shouldn't have annexed the parts of Ukraine containing all the citizens who didn't want to do it.

> Konstantin Kilimnik

Would this be the very same Konstantin Kilimnik who was the Russian Intelligence Officer found by the Special Counsel, US Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, and the US Treasury to have worked with Paul Manafort and the Donald Trump campaign during the 2016 election? Gee, I wonder why Aaron Maté would want to minimize Russia's moral culpability here.

Snark aside, I think one of the easier things we can stop doing here in America is stop sharing Russian disinformation from not disinterested bloggers, who have proven themselves to be very very wrong about the nature of Vladimir Putin and the allure of autocracy in general. This whole "Democracy and freedom are incompatible" idea circling techno bubbles needs to end asap.

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