Good. The government does not have a right to restrict trade between citizens and companies. On the other hand, it's the parents' job to decide what their children can and can't do.
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Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court
81–90 of 141 posts
Re: Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fortnite is its own evil. They only show an extremely small fraction of the items available each day, with no indication of whether they'll return, so that you feel you have to buy things now in case you never have the chance again.
I think this argument is a stretch for two reasons: 1. Anyone who sells anything has limited runs, sales and so forth. Like that's just commerce; and 2. Loot box games do all the same thing anyway so at least on Fortnite you know the cost of what you want. This is one of these situations where Fortnite is strictly better than RNG loot boxes. That's not the same as saying they do no wrong. But better? Objectively, yes…
> Anyone who sells anything has limited runs, sales and so forth.
Yes, but Fortnite pushes this to the absolute extreme. It's one thing to visit a store with thousands of products where there's a discount on some of the items and a few limited-time offers. It's a very different thing to visit another store which has thousands of products but only makes eight of them available for sale each day, always as a limited-time offer, with no information about the rest of the catalogue.
Re: Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Introducing artificial scarcity on digital goods seems incredibly anti-consumer. Consider a different scenario where someone wants the skin both now and later (for whatever reason - value is driven by the desire of the purchaser), but doesn't have the financial wherewithal to purchase frivolous things at a whim. In that scenario the consumer has to make a choice between purchasing an artificially scarce good or makin…
That seems like an unlikely edge case given these are probably pretty cheap?
I think it is absolutely an issue if you are a kid or you are living paycheck to paycheck. There is a social/prestige aspect to skins and game rewards that shouldn't be underrated, and that type of business model is always targeting 'whales', i.e. people with a phenotypic disposition to getting carried away and spending a huge amount. I don't think it's right to let companies deploy manipulative business models or collect obscene rents - it always winds up hurting the most vulnerable people. Further, nothing of value is created by that model - it's simply another rent collection tactic to force people to pay up when it's best for the company.
At least with physical goods there is an overhead to keeping old SKUs in the catalog. A digital skin is a metadata blob in a database, which can't be deleted anyways, since anyone who paid for access to that metadata needs it to exist.
Re: Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, Fortnite doesn't let you customise your appearance at all without buying skins. If you want your character to match your gender, you have to buy a skin. If you want your character to look even slightly good, you have to buy a skin. And then buy a new one in two weeks because you had no idea that they'd give you a better option later and you didn't know how scarce the current week's was.
Ok but how is this different from buying clothes in irl? You usually can’t find the same clothes n months later in the same store.
Fast fashion retailers are similar indeed, but they have vastly larger selections and slower cycle times by comparison. Dozens of different items in each category versus a total number of items I can count on my hands. The item selection changing daily rather than seasonally (monthly?).
Re: Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
This definitely isn't a universal experience and there are definitely a lot of trading card horror stories, but for me + friends growing up the purchase of trading cards had a different place in life. They were like one of life's small rewards you had a chance of rolling whenever going into a shop with a parent/guardian. Being at the checkout, putting on the little kid puppy-dog 'pleaseeeeeee' and the adult deciding…
Did we have different childhoods, or do you not really forget yours? Children used to steal trading cards and have violent fights over them. Only a few dedicated nerds played the game; the rest just collected the cards and showed them as a proxy of self-worth. This is perfectly normal child behaviour, and I'm sure it was much worse than whatever's happening right now with lootboxes. The main difference between them i…
We had different childhoods, I never saw violent fights. Totally didn't mean to present my memory as a universal truth which is why I led with the first sentence. Definitely whole weavings of intertwined complexities to unravel!
Re: Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm sure my parents would disagree that Pokémon trading cards weren't a giant money sink designed to take their money. I can see a lot of problems with giving children access to credit cards, but I honestly fail to see how loot boxes are different from trading cards marketed to children. My high school enacted and enforced a ban on all card and board games because some parents were worried about child gambling; I'm s…
This definitely isn't a universal experience and there are definitely a lot of trading card horror stories, but for me + friends growing up the purchase of trading cards had a different place in life. They were like one of life's small rewards you had a chance of rolling whenever going into a shop with a parent/guardian. Being at the checkout, putting on the little kid puppy-dog 'pleaseeeeeee' and the adult deciding…
Doesn't gambling mostly come down to diposition?
I did many addicting things in life an never became addicted.
Re: Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think you're way off the mark, or being a "grumps" on the subject. Young minds can be heavily influenced which is why many societies regulate experiences that may cause harm. I'm sure there are children who aren't impacted by EA lootboxes, as I'm sure there are children who are. It's the ones that are I'm concerned about, and the families that will end up dealing with the fallout. I don't see why it's not pos…
This is all really sad and I wonder how I'll ever protect my child from what these cooperations will come up with 10 years from now. I know probably every generation has lamented about this but I wonder if childhood these days is as fun as it used to be. Yesterday we overheard two kids, maybe 9 years old, discuss the local real estate market and how one house across the street went for a million bucks to which the ot…
I hear what you're saying but my conclusion was that I'm never going to be able to protect my son and all I can do was prepare him in stages as best as possible.
Change is inevitable... and in the past I used nostalgia as a mental point of origin to judge situations today. However I've come to see that change creates both negative and positive opportunity but it's just a matter of perspective.
I'm sure there are positive aspects to those 9 year olds discussing real estate, like an opportunity to discuss sustainable development or homelessness and charities like Habitat for Humanity. Who knows where those seeds will lead a 9 year old?
Re: Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court
#88I don't think I've ever seen so many ads in an article. To the point I stopped reading. Wow
Re: Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court
#89I was really hoping that the pushback on videogame gambling by minors would gain more regulatory momentum, not less. I think it's going to take longer to see regulation stick due to a lack of first hand knowledge of lootboxes by politicians and judges, who to be fair, are of a generation that just do not understand the subject matter.
I don't think legislators are entirely ignorant of the problem. They probably don't want to even try regulating artists; and the companies selling these lootboxes have insisted that any regulation would impinge upon freedom-of-speech. The regulations we have on gambling applies because the games involve wagering money; things like loot boxes[0] get around this primarily by not offering anything of value. Of course, t…
The article is about the Netherlands, so basically none of your arguments are applicable.
Re: Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, Fortnite doesn't let you customise your appearance at all without buying skins. If you want your character to match your gender, you have to buy a skin. If you want your character to look even slightly good, you have to buy a skin. And then buy a new one in two weeks because you had no idea that they'd give you a better option later and you didn't know how scarce the current week's was.
Ok but how is this different from buying clothes in irl? You usually can’t find the same clothes n months later in the same store.
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