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The new silent majority: People who don't tweet

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Re: The new silent majority: People who don't tweet

#701
I was talking about this to friends the other day. I hypothesised this might happen in a paper (apologies, not in English, and not hosted online, I think, anymore) 15 years ago - with the basis of hypothesis being that algorithms that are optimised towards the wrong objective can easily form echo chambers that amplify a certain attitude - but to a dip in/dip out user it looks like a consensus forming - because humans are not good at perceiving difference in problems past a certain scale.

What I couldn't imagine back then is that Twitter is going to be the main platform (I was using a nascent FB and early 00's bulletin boards as the examples of the system). And Twitter is absolutely bonkers in terms of how it polarizes opinion. If I didn't know any better, I would think that it was specifically designed to achieve this purpose. If I needed to design a system that polarizes opinion more than Twitter, I would be hard pressed to do it better.

1. The 160/240 character limit forces you to reduce topics to their most impactful tenets - which strips out all of the nuance and grounds you into an extreme position. For the one expressing the opinion - it will always look more benign than for the one reading it, because the writer can't fully strip it's perception through bias of known context. 2. The users have "gotten around that" by starting threads - and Twitter has started optimising the feed to show threaded views - but threads are not generated "at once" (there are tools for that, but most users don't use them). They are generated post by post - and in a fairly complex topic (such as, oh I don't know, the war in Ukraine) - this will mean >10 tweets as part of the thread. Each of those tweets is replyable and because you can like parts rather than the whole thread - it will show in people's feeds piecewise -> which will create discussions on parts of the point, not the full context. 3. In turn - these piecewise reactions are forming a base for someone else's reaction, where you've gone even further into the rabbit hole. By this point - an argument has already started - and because the 240 char limit doesn't allow for nuance - the argument looks like a black and white argument - as there are no points that are in the "grey zone" that a reader from the side could connect between the opposing sides and perceive any hope of consensus. 4. Users from the outside see it as B&W - so they enter with B&W assumptions in - and assume an aggressive tone - completely derailing any hope to avoid creation of opposing echo chambers.

I can see how they got there - and I can see the choices they made - 160 characters was a good choice for user engagement and revenue - as the flywheel will allow for more ad insertions - and if you optimise for quick reactions - your algorithm is going to take you into a zone where people don't read entire threads - because the algo isn't rewarded for people idling about and not reacting/answering. In terms of what it's doing to public opinion - it should be a textbook example of how growth-oriented product design - when not evaluated hollistically, can create unwanted social effects.

EDIT: Forgot to link to original point of the article /facepalm. The reason why it's never going to achieve higher penetration - in my view - is that a lot of people get adverse emotional reactions from how the algorithm works - so you end up having people who have to be there (media) - and people who are quite comfortable with emotionally loaded engagement on social networks - which amplifies all of the functions stated above. And those people are, fortunately, in a minority. However, the fact that people don't tweet, doesn't mean that people don't read the tweets - as twitter is public without an account and major news outlets usually link to twitter threads. This drastically amplifies the reach of the distorted echo-chamber battles - which makes the overall effect on public opinion even worse.

I mean it's perfect in how horrible it is.

Re: The new silent majority: People who don't tweet

#702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember to interpret someone's arguments in the strongest possible sense. Chastising others is great for moral superiority but it is a poor tool for discussion.

You know, telling people they're acting morally superior when they're confronting the fact that people are calling aspects of their identity controversial and acting like said parts of their identity simply shouldn't be discussed in public is not a good look.

I never said aspects of your identity are controversial. You are looking to be offended here, not have a conversation.

Re: The new silent majority: People who don't tweet

#703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, actually a fundamental rule of comedy: always get the audience on your side. If they don't know you, aren't rooting for you, or think you're on the "wrong side", they will misinterpret your joke as a real insult. Comedians directly insult people all the time and get laughs, but only because the audience believes they're on the same side as the comedian.

Did nobody read the entire copypasta? What comedian jokes using death threats?

[deleted]

Re: The new silent majority: People who don't tweet

#704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you're talking about with the BLM stuff. You would support them privately but not publicly? > Black girl programmers should not be black girl programmers, they should be programmers. And they most certainly won't face discrimination because of that. This is a perfect demonstration of the "head in the sand" position that leads to conservatism that I was talking about. The whole point of "black girls…

I doesn't have to do with public or private support. I think people were scammed to a significant degree. To offer solidarity means to let yourself be exploited too. I don't see how my position leads to conservatism. If I prefer not making race a relevant attribute in an outreach program, I guess I am. But the label doesn't mean much to me. There perhaps aren't many black women in programming yet, but opposing a new…

You keep avoiding explicitly saying what you mean. By scamming, do you mean the houses bought by Patrice Cullors? The ones she bought with the profits from her bestselling book, where there's no evidence donations were involved?

The idea that progressives are creating a newly racialised world where before everything was meritocratic and equal opportunity /is/ the modern conservative line, and it's a lie. The whole reason for outreach programs is to counteract lack of opportunities that are race based - what exactly do you think racism is?

Actively opposing programs designed to counteract racism, is supporting racism, you do realise that?

Re: The new silent majority: People who don't tweet

#705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Navy Seal Copypasta, broken into eight twitter sized parts. Eventually they banned me for this Fucking killjoys. If twitter is moderating for people who can't even figure out not to take that copypasta seriously[1], then they're showing their hand. There's no end state. No goal. There is no cultural equilibrium point that even perfect moderation could ever achieve. Therefore, visible attrition is the end state. Twit…

everything is to be taken seriously (ie at face value) bc anything more than that would require agreement between those who disagree. (considered to be somewhat of a hard problem.)

>everything is to be taken seriously (ie at face value) bc anything more than that would require agreement between those who disagree.

That's backwards.

Everything should be seen as profoundly not-serious, for precisely the same reason.

Re: The new silent majority: People who don't tweet

#706
post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The do. The article is incredibly misleading. I’m reading a lot of talk from you about the Democrats and Republicans, but what are the Independents thinking?

What I'm saying is that the parties understand the makeup of independents insofar as they know there are so few true independents, that it doesn't really matter what they think. In today's era, you get much more bang for your buck by convincing your own partisans to make it to the polls. My broader point is that contrary to what the article implies, "Unaffiliated Voter != A voter who is open to voting for either part…

> that it doesn't really matter what they think

That sounds pretty clearly in contradiction with the Declaration of Independence and the subsequent United States Constitution and the subsequent United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Re: The new silent majority: People who don't tweet

#707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, telling people they're acting morally superior when they're confronting the fact that people are calling aspects of their identity controversial and acting like said parts of their identity simply shouldn't be discussed in public is not a good look.

I never said aspects of your identity are controversial. You are looking to be offended here, not have a conversation.

No, you didn't. The original person did. You then told me I was making a straw man by calling him out for it.

You could have just as easily not commented and I could have been dealing with the original commenter. You decided to comment, defending his absurdity. You don't get to now tell me I am "looking to be offended," especially when you take the side of the less reasonable position.

Re: The new silent majority: People who don't tweet

#708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can call whatever this bizarre and obviously false claim is what you want, but this entire subthread is very transparently an attempt to justify using a slur. It has very "why can't I say the n word" energy.

This is an extremely poor faith interpretation of a reasonable argument: if someone asks me to call them a word that is often perceived as a slur, because they belong to a member of that group and would like to "reclaim" it, should I do so? Am I being racist by using the word? This is not a clear question like you present it to be, and has absolutely nothing to do with an inherent desire to use slurs against marginal…

This is absolutely not the situation that he has presented it as. Someone else has already stated what is going on here. These people do not identify as a slur. His entire argument hinges on this insane idea that people identify as a slur.

Reclaiming != identifying as.

The person you're defending even went on to say that his mentality has gotten him into hot water. The fact that you didn't read into that as "I have no idea what I'm talking about and these people clearly didn't want to be called this" is disconcerting.

And yes, if you are not a person of color and you use a slur traditionally used to describe a person of color to describe or talk about a person of color, you are racist. Full stop. The very fact that you're concocting some outlandish situation where you'd magically be allowed to use slurs is extremely telling, though. If you had any idea what you were talking about, you wouldn't ask that.

Maybe you should stop opining on things and listen to the parties these things affect. The usage of slurs isn't yours to have an opinion on if the slurs aren't words for you.

Re: The new silent majority: People who don't tweet

#709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said aspects of your identity are controversial. You are looking to be offended here, not have a conversation.

No, you didn't. The original person did. You then told me I was making a straw man by calling him out for it. You could have just as easily not commented and I could have been dealing with the original commenter. You decided to comment, defending his absurdity. You don't get to now tell me I am "looking to be offended," especially when you take the side of the less reasonable position.

Do you really think the whole spectrum of LGBTQ identities isn't controversial?

We aren't saying good or bad, we aren't assigning value, we are simply saying controversial. Like, obviously you feel you have to fight everyone if there is so much as a chance someone is attacking you - that sort of supports the argument, no?

And no, my original argument was not that LGBTQ aligned folks should go back into the closet or any such nonsense as that. It was mostly that if you have hot takes on deep in-community debates (I give several examples above), maybe don't share them on twitter and disown everyone around you who disagrees.

Again, read arguments in the strongest possible sense. Read the entire context.

Re: The new silent majority: People who don't tweet

#710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he spammed the same text every time. Definitely worthy of a ban for any community online or offline.

Spam is unsolicited. You don't get to message someone and cry "spam" when he replies.

Don't get emotionally invested in this. His messages are unsolicited even if they tagged his account. They are also irrelevant which makes them spam.
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