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TP240PhoneHome Reflection/Amplification DDoS Attack Vector

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Re: TP240PhoneHome Reflection/Amplification DDoS Attack Vector

#11

Tracking down these systems is easy, so these issues can normally be solved pretty easily. Thats because typically any amplification vector doesn't allow the source IP of the amplifier to be spoofed. So as soon as a DDoS attack begins, a sample of the packets can be taken to get a list of the amplifiers used. Those can then be tracked down and patched to no longer act as amplifiers.

unless the amplifier mechanism is widespread.

Re: TP240PhoneHome Reflection/Amplification DDoS Attack Vector

#12
post #8

Is it just me, or does it seem crazy that we all just accept that private businesses are obligated to protect themselves from state-sponsored hacking? Imagine if Wal-Mart had to fund a private air force and patrol over their stores in order to combat foreign bombers coming in and everyone was like, "Yeah, that's just how it goes." Isn't a primary responsibility of government to protect its citizens and businesses fro…

I guess it depends on the analogy, and whether physical location means anything for the internet. Piracy of commercial ships, for example.

Re: TP240PhoneHome Reflection/Amplification DDoS Attack Vector

#13

Tracking down these systems is easy, so these issues can normally be solved pretty easily. Thats because typically any amplification vector doesn't allow the source IP of the amplifier to be spoofed. So as soon as a DDoS attack begins, a sample of the packets can be taken to get a list of the amplifiers used. Those can then be tracked down and patched to no longer act as amplifiers.

It could be easily solved by the operator, but that doesn't mean it's easy for the victims to get the operators to fix their stuff. These amplifiers are already run by people who ignored the software manufacturer's directions. What are the odds they will actually install the new version that's harder to abuse?

Re: TP240PhoneHome Reflection/Amplification DDoS Attack Vector

#14
post #8

Is it just me, or does it seem crazy that we all just accept that private businesses are obligated to protect themselves from state-sponsored hacking? Imagine if Wal-Mart had to fund a private air force and patrol over their stores in order to combat foreign bombers coming in and everyone was like, "Yeah, that's just how it goes." Isn't a primary responsibility of government to protect its citizens and businesses fro…

so, china's internet? because that's what you're actually asking when you ask a policed internet.

Re: TP240PhoneHome Reflection/Amplification DDoS Attack Vector

#15
post #8

Is it just me, or does it seem crazy that we all just accept that private businesses are obligated to protect themselves from state-sponsored hacking? Imagine if Wal-Mart had to fund a private air force and patrol over their stores in order to combat foreign bombers coming in and everyone was like, "Yeah, that's just how it goes." Isn't a primary responsibility of government to protect its citizens and businesses fro…

Sorry but Walmart has cameras, guards, and most importantly locked windows and doors.

Just because nobody has figured out (or bothered to invest into) building the equivalent of basic security doesn't mean it's the state's responsibility.

It is the government's responsibility to make sure companies take their responsibilities of protecting their customers' data, and the internet more broadly from the impact of the company's decisions.

Re: TP240PhoneHome Reflection/Amplification DDoS Attack Vector

#16
post #12
post #8

Is it just me, or does it seem crazy that we all just accept that private businesses are obligated to protect themselves from state-sponsored hacking? Imagine if Wal-Mart had to fund a private air force and patrol over their stores in order to combat foreign bombers coming in and everyone was like, "Yeah, that's just how it goes." Isn't a primary responsibility of government to protect its citizens and businesses fro…

I guess it depends on the analogy, and whether physical location means anything for the internet. Piracy of commercial ships, for example.

That is also very much a problem where states are expected to intervene.

Re: TP240PhoneHome Reflection/Amplification DDoS Attack Vector

#17

Tracking down these systems is easy, so these issues can normally be solved pretty easily. Thats because typically any amplification vector doesn't allow the source IP of the amplifier to be spoofed. So as soon as a DDoS attack begins, a sample of the packets can be taken to get a list of the amplifiers used. Those can then be tracked down and patched to no longer act as amplifiers.

unless the amplifier mechanism is widespread.

Concerning this particular vector:

> Approximately 2,600 of these systems have been incorrectly provisioned so that an unauthenticated system test facility has been inadvertently exposed to the public internet

Re: TP240PhoneHome Reflection/Amplification DDoS Attack Vector

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because that value is a physical limit

How so? If I find a vector that triggers the remote system to `cat /dev/random | netcat $target` then there's no limit for how much traffic my refelection generates, no?

look at the binary, it's an overflow value. Like it didn't fit the spreadsheet.

Re: TP240PhoneHome Reflection/Amplification DDoS Attack Vector

#19
post #8

Is it just me, or does it seem crazy that we all just accept that private businesses are obligated to protect themselves from state-sponsored hacking? Imagine if Wal-Mart had to fund a private air force and patrol over their stores in order to combat foreign bombers coming in and everyone was like, "Yeah, that's just how it goes." Isn't a primary responsibility of government to protect its citizens and businesses fro…

While your logic is solid and I do think this would be ideal I struggle to see how this would work.

Dropping bombs on a walmart store is clearly unwelcome, sending traffic to walmart's website? Much less clear. You can guess based on the traffic pattern but the only way to really know is to ask walmart if this is welcome traffic (not just a burst because some new product came out). Especially since many cases are DoS with encrypted TLS traffic that looks much like any other traffic to an outside observer.

However much of the protection is threat of retaliation ("if you drop bombs on us we will flatten your country"). So maybe that is the solution here, the government should treat these attacks as real threats and punish those responsible.

Re: TP240PhoneHome Reflection/Amplification DDoS Attack Vector

#20
post #8

Is it just me, or does it seem crazy that we all just accept that private businesses are obligated to protect themselves from state-sponsored hacking? Imagine if Wal-Mart had to fund a private air force and patrol over their stores in order to combat foreign bombers coming in and everyone was like, "Yeah, that's just how it goes." Isn't a primary responsibility of government to protect its citizens and businesses fro…

Sorry but Walmart has cameras, guards, and most importantly locked windows and doors. Just because nobody has figured out (or bothered to invest into) building the equivalent of basic security doesn't mean it's the state's responsibility. It is the government's responsibility to make sure companies take their responsibilities of protecting their customers' data, and the internet more broadly from the impact of the co…

I think the question is about foreign government operations. If North Korean agents threw up some graffiti on a Wal-Mart and stole some soda, the private security would not be expected to handle the situation on their own. Even if the stakes seem low, that's an international incident.
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