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VC Decries Airbnb’s Recent Funding for Founder Control and Cashout

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Re: VC Decries Airbnb’s Recent Funding for Founder Control and Cashout

#41
The problem Chamath is highlighting is not that the founders are cashing out. Or that early employees are not getting cash -- everyone with vested common stock gets a proportional amount of the cash.

The big difference is that since the founders aren't selling stock, they aren't being diluted, so the employees with unvested stock don't get more of the company.

Basically, vested common gets paid, common doesn't get diluted at all, unvested common gets relatively screwed (they'd own more of the company if it were a secondary sale).

Of course, dividend vs secondary also affects the investors' price, but I can't see Chamath making such a stink about a simple matter of price.

Re: VC Decries Airbnb’s Recent Funding for Founder Control and Cashout

#43
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? It's a whole lot easier to swing for the fences when you're already a millionaire. Selling 5% of your total shares for $3,000,000 sets you up well for life. Not great, but well. At 4% interest that's $120k/year. After that, it's gravy.

It also takes a lot of pressure from you and maybe distracts from building the company. On Wallstreet they call this "fuck you money".

In Silicon Valley all the best people aren't in it just for the money. Can't say that about Wall Street.

Re: VC Decries Airbnb’s Recent Funding for Founder Control and Cashout

#44
A few thoughts:

1. It is bad form for this sort of thing to be aired publicly. It may give us a voyeuristic fascination on something that is depicted as an internal intrigue within a prominent up-and-coming startup but this is fundamentally company confidential information that is not capable of being aired publicly without significant distortion. Who can answer the implied charges of impropriety? Those most directly affected by whatever is happening can’t do so without violating duties of confidentiality. Yet what are they supposed to do? Sit by while people now start making invidious comparisons of their activities with, say, the increasingly notorious Groupon venture? Come out and declare "I am not a crook"? Start attacking the author of the email, who may have intended it as a confidential communication and not even have had a role in its being leaked? Or start to spread over the public record all sorts of confidential discussions in hopes of trying to defend their reputations? I don’t know how this got leaked. But it amounts to an inherently unfair attack that is almost impossible to defend just by the nature of the case. In law, we learn early on that a one-sided story can almost always be made to sound compelling, while on a full airing it can just as easily be shown as just the opposite.

2. There is a long-time tension in the startup world between founders and VCs and, as someone who has worked closely with founders for nearly three decades, I can say unequivocally that it has not been the VCs who have tended to get the short end of the stick when the inequities arise. Now that fact does not justify founder abuse, if that is what happens in a given case (I say nothing about this case - we really don’t know the facts). For decades, investors categorically refused to let founders take even a penny out of the company as they were urged to "swing for the fences" to ensure that the investors got their projected minimum 10-to-1 one return on investment. And when they missed, it was the investors who would force a merger or sale of the company, take out their liquidation preference to get a return on their money, and leave founders with a zero-equity return after perhaps years of working for little or no salary and putting in 20-hour workdays in the process. This value proposition may have paid in a big way for founders in select companies but it has also left large numbers of seriously harmed founders in its wake over the years. Today, this is changed somewhat and founders at times have opportunities to balance their risks along the way as they strike their bargains with the VCs. How, when, and to what extent they take any money out along the way is a completely legitimate issue to be fought for by founders and resisted by investors as circumstances dictate. But the overriding goal of letting founders spread some of their risk is completely bona fide. The details get resolved by the founders, the company, and the investors through private negotiation, not through a public airing. If investors choose to accept something that sounds aggressive to the rest of us, that is their calculated risk. Last I checked, they qualified as "sophisticated investors."

3. Is it good policy to have a dividend declared for the benefit of insiders and for founders to take significant cash out of a company in the early stages even while other employees may not have that opportunity? Maybe, maybe not. That is a legitimate question for debate and it should be cast as a policy debate, not as a perverse prying into the details of a particular company whose circumstances we do not really know. The traditional justification for requiring founders to ride it out to the bitter end with no prospect of any real return unless the company hit it big is that it is important that founders have "skin in the game," i.e., show a real commitment to the venture as opposed to making opportunistic short-term moves that further their immediate gain at the expense of the venture. That is a legitimate concern at all times in a startup but so too is the idea of fairness to founders. Why, when founders have the power to assert more control, should they voluntarily accede to a historic policy the keeps them in handcuffs and leaves them with basically an all-or-nothing proposition in whether they ever get anything significant out of the venture? This makes no sense and it is natural that founders would want to change this older pattern and practice. We can debate to our heart's content whether this is good for startups or not - that should be a policy debate (including over where exact lines ought to be drawn on cash take-outs), not an excuse to take what might amount to cheap shots at a founding team that certainly deserves better treatment than to have a one-sided debate carried on at its expense.

Re: VC Decries Airbnb’s Recent Funding for Founder Control and Cashout

#45
Separately, when you look at successful tech companies, it seems that dividends are an approach used by cash rich operations to distribute excess earnings — in fact, the most successful, cash rich tech company in the world, Apple, hasn’t issued a dividend and they have more than $75B in cash!

The fact that companies can get away with something like this is absolutely ludicrous. It illustrates just how far the stock market has gone from its original purpose.

Back before companies had the ability to sweet-talk investors with bulging pockets, companies wanting capital had to raise it the good-old-fashioned-way: IPO. IPO used to have the ability to allow a company to access as much capital as it would reasonably need to grow. But with the preponderance of heavily privatized companies milking both the private AND the public side of the investment machine, the value-creating just cannot be accounted for properly. Something in the gears here needs to be tweaked.

A company like Apple with $75B cash (if that's true) should have a legal and an ethical obligation to pay out dividends to its shareholders. Tight-fisting cash doesn't do anything to the wealth-creating mechanism in our capitalistic society.

Re: VC Decries Airbnb’s Recent Funding for Founder Control and Cashout

#46
post #28

I must have missed the post where a VC said "Guys, sorry, love your company but I couldn't in good conscience participate in a round where the rich people get paid and the poor people are told to wait for an exit." I must have missed that post quite frequently, because that describes every VC round ever . A $120 million investment round means that about $2.4 million in cash money just moved from the limited partners…

No, that money doesn't go directly into the partners' pockets. It also goes to pay the VC firm's rent, travel cost, salaries of associates and support staff, legal/accounting costs associated with the deal, and a bunch of other things. It is generally accepted that a vast majority of a VC partner's income comes from their share of the fund's return, not from the management fee. It is not unheard of for a VC firm's co…

legal/accounting costs associated with the deal

Industry standard practice is that startups pay for costs associated with deals, not capitalists. That one is virtually universal. The grapevine tells me that it is not uncommon to see VCs travelling as board members. Some of them don't exactly fly coach.

Re: VC Decries Airbnb’s Recent Funding for Founder Control and Cashout

#47
post #44

A few thoughts: 1. It is bad form for this sort of thing to be aired publicly. It may give us a voyeuristic fascination on something that is depicted as an internal intrigue within a prominent up-and-coming startup but this is fundamentally company confidential information that is not capable of being aired publicly without significant distortion. Who can answer the implied charges of impropriety? Those most directly…

The 3 points you make forget the little guy: that early employee, whose employee number has 1 digit, who trusted the founders when he accepted the option grant and put 60 hours of work or more each week in the hope of not being screwed when the founders negotiate confidentially with the investors on how the company will move forward.

There's no SEC for privately-held companies, there is basically no oversight and the confidentiality clauses make it almost impossible for this little guy to find out how he's getting screwed and by whom. Learning and talking about it is the only way to fix it, and I'm a bit concerned that you completely overlooked this aspect in your comment.

Re: VC Decries Airbnb’s Recent Funding for Founder Control and Cashout

#48
post #43
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also takes a lot of pressure from you and maybe distracts from building the company. On Wallstreet they call this "fuck you money".

In Silicon Valley all the best people aren't in it just for the money. Can't say that about Wall Street.

keep drinking the kool-aid

Re: VC Decries Airbnb’s Recent Funding for Founder Control and Cashout

#49

Interesting that he brings up Apple as during their IPO, if it wasn't for Wozniak and his "Woz Plan" the majority of Apple employees and the former earlier employees would have been frozen out of the IPO. Jobs was very much against giving up his share of the pie. To me, being greedy is hardly the worst trait to have as entrepreneur.

what traits are worse than greed for (successful) entrepreneurs? you highlight woz's intervention, but then say greed isn't as bad as...?

Re: VC Decries Airbnb’s Recent Funding for Founder Control and Cashout

#50
post #33
post #28

I must have missed the post where a VC said "Guys, sorry, love your company but I couldn't in good conscience participate in a round where the rich people get paid and the poor people are told to wait for an exit." I must have missed that post quite frequently, because that describes every VC round ever . A $120 million investment round means that about $2.4 million in cash money just moved from the limited partners…

You're correct. VCs play a game where they win with other people's money. They make good money regardless of performance (for example, 10-year VC returns seem to be trailing 10-year stock market returns). They make a killing if their portfolio companies do well. Are you suggesting that this VC pattern justifies the actions of founders who take $21M as dividends ? (to be more precise - founders of a young private comp…

Are you suggesting that this VC pattern justifies the actions of founders who take $21M as dividends ?

I don't think that particularly requires moral justification, any more than an engineer saying "That offer is interesting but I would prefer $5,000 more and an extra week of vacation" requires moral justification. Capitalism happens. Sometimes, it even happens to rich people.

Edit for context: "Capitalism happens" is shorthand I frequently use for "Sometimes one party in honest negotiation with another has leverage, perhaps because of how supply and demand for the product being sold shake out, and this is natural and not particularly noteworthy." I usually say it when rich people complain how much money they are paying for things like e.g. engineers or shares in a hot startup.

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