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White noise improves learning by modulating activity in midbrain regions (2014)

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: White noise improves learning by modulating activity in midbrain regions (2014)

#91

Post by ehnto »

petra wrote: post #59
fouc wrote: post #51

From Norman Doidge's book "The Brain That Changes Itself", I learned that: Long term white noise exposure might be associated with hearing loss, especially age-related. The theory was that "nerves that fire together, wire together", too much white noise compared to clear sounds will cause the neural mapping for sounds to gradually become fuzzier, making distinctions between sounds will become harder.

"However, a recent study in the JAMA Journal of Otolaryngology–Head & Neck Surgery states that white noise’s lack of structure can worsen tinnitus symptoms. The study researchers also suggest that white noise could possibly “accelerate the ageing of the brain” and increase the risk for dementia" Study: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaotolaryngology/article-...

Anecdotal, but white noise sends my tinnitus wild. If the white noise is loud enough, you won't necessarily hear the change until it's turned off, but after that my ears are positively screaming.

Same is true of other kinds of background noise, such as computer fans, air conditioners or driving in a car. A while ago, based on some self study, I tried to 'fix' my tinnitus by targeting it with specific frequencies rather than noise, and that provided temporary relief by actually reducing the perception of the tinnitus briefly (like 5 minutes). But white noise has always increased it.

Re: White noise improves learning by modulating activity in midbrain regions (2014)

#92

Post by cplusplusfellow »

naasking wrote: post #55
executesorder66 wrote: post #18

I've always been confused by people that enjoy white noise. It's awful. Here is a sample from the wikipedia page on white noise : https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3AWhite... Does anyone genuinely enjoy listening to that? On the other hand, even though I don't, I could imagine why someone might like Brown noise (sounds almost like the ocean) : https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3A…

"Like" is the wrong word. Silence is best, but if there are lots of auditory distractions in your environment then white noise drowns them out pretty well and just fades into a background hum for me.

The issue that I suffer from is that there is no such thing as silence. Even the sound of my breathing can be triggering, and the quietest of quiet keyboards will still set me off.

Re: White noise improves learning by modulating activity in midbrain regions (2014)

#93

Post by jader201 »

fouc wrote: post #51

From Norman Doidge's book "The Brain That Changes Itself", I learned that: Long term white noise exposure might be associated with hearing loss, especially age-related. The theory was that "nerves that fire together, wire together", too much white noise compared to clear sounds will cause the neural mapping for sounds to gradually become fuzzier, making distinctions between sounds will become harder.

Must every article on HN about some positive discovery around noise, hearing, and tinnitus always be followed with a top comment about how everything we think about these things is wrong, and everything we’re doing is damaging our hearing and/or making our tinnitus worse?

I’ve been sleeping with Marpac sound machines for years, partly due to tinnitus but also partly just to help with sleep, only to find out it’s probably damaging my hearing and/or making my tinnitus worse.

Can someone please post some positive news about hearing/tinnitus?

This is seriously the second link in like 3 days.

Maybe I should just never click any HN article hearing related.

Re: White noise improves learning by modulating activity in midbrain regions (2014)

#94

Post by ramraj07 »

fouc wrote: post #51

From Norman Doidge's book "The Brain That Changes Itself", I learned that: Long term white noise exposure might be associated with hearing loss, especially age-related. The theory was that "nerves that fire together, wire together", too much white noise compared to clear sounds will cause the neural mapping for sounds to gradually become fuzzier, making distinctions between sounds will become harder.

Not necessarily a fan of white noise but I’d take white noise over unsubstantiated claims from a Popsci book any day. Those things are chokefull of un reveiwed conjecture that has no place in a book or anywhere else except the authors brain where all they should be is hypotheses.

Re: White noise improves learning by modulating activity in midbrain regions (2014)

#95

Post by minihat »

jader201 wrote: post #93
fouc wrote: post #51

From Norman Doidge's book "The Brain That Changes Itself", I learned that: Long term white noise exposure might be associated with hearing loss, especially age-related. The theory was that "nerves that fire together, wire together", too much white noise compared to clear sounds will cause the neural mapping for sounds to gradually become fuzzier, making distinctions between sounds will become harder.

Must every article on HN about some positive discovery around noise, hearing, and tinnitus always be followed with a top comment about how everything we think about these things is wrong, and everything we’re doing is damaging our hearing and/or making our tinnitus worse? I’ve been sleeping with Marpac sound machines for years, partly due to tinnitus but also partly just to help with sleep, only to find out it’s prob…

It can take a long time for conflicting theories to resolve in neuroscience. For example, the existence of adult neurogenesis in humans is still hotly debated despite at least a decade or two of papers on both sides. Meanwhile, it has already been accepted as a fact by the news media, and has begun to appear in self help books as evidence of the ability to 're-wire the brain'.

So, enjoy your sound machine. I'm sure bad sleep is probably implicated in hearing loss, too. Or at least it will be once the right grad student reads this comment.

Re: White noise improves learning by modulating activity in midbrain regions (2014)

#96

Post by wonderwonder »

rbolkey wrote: post #23
avgDev wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Music with words distracts me as I like to 'understand' songs and just enjoy the message. I tried electronic music and as a European it really makes me want to dance, hah. By far the best music for me is classical music. It literally makes tedious things like writing emails, documenting and coding much more enjoyable.

Another option is to listen to music that's in a different language. I have a playlist that I affectionately call "French Bistro".

I do the same with Scandavian music like Wadruna and then whatever youtube throws at me. No idea what they are saying but it's a nice melodic music that doesn't distract me and no worries about the song getting stuck in my head.

Re: White noise improves learning by modulating activity in midbrain regions (2014)

#97

Post by Buttons840 »

fouc wrote: post #51

From Norman Doidge's book "The Brain That Changes Itself", I learned that: Long term white noise exposure might be associated with hearing loss, especially age-related. The theory was that "nerves that fire together, wire together", too much white noise compared to clear sounds will cause the neural mapping for sounds to gradually become fuzzier, making distinctions between sounds will become harder.

On the subject of hearing loss, can I plug my idea again that all devices should have a "constantly gradually decrease volume" option? It's way to easy to turn up a device for a temporary reason and then an hour later you realize the sound has been way too loud for a long time.

I would rather push a button to turn up the volume twice an hour than realize I've been damaging my hearing for the last hour for something I'm barely paying attention too. Especially for music, if I notice the volume decreasing, I can turn it up, and if I don't notice, then just let a fade to nothing since I'm not paying attention apparently.

Re: White noise improves learning by modulating activity in midbrain regions (2014)

#98

Post by nwienert »

alar44 wrote: post #87
jjeaff wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't be so quick to call nonsense. Spending time listening to certain things most definitely affects your ability to pick out specific details. All heavy metal music sounds about the same to me. But I'm sure that is not the case for fans of heavy metal.

Why does someone that listens to classical hear harmonics (I'm still not sure whether you mean tonal harmonies or harmonics aka timbre) better than someone who doesn't? Sure, maybe they'd be better at picking out a bassoon in the mix than a metal fan, and a metal fan might be able to tell the difference between a Jackson guitar and a ESP guitar than the classical fan, but that's just due to familiarity, not their ove…

Hearing is a process that extends from your ear all the way through your brain. The hard line you think exists between “hear” and “familiarity” or “ear training” doesn’t exist. The last few years I’ve been spending around Vietnamese, and while I still speak relatively little of it, I’ve been able to slowly adjust to be able to separate out sounds and words that previously sounded like one big mess.

Re: White noise improves learning by modulating activity in midbrain regions (2014)

#99

Post by alar44 »

nwienert wrote: post #98
alar44 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does someone that listens to classical hear harmonics (I'm still not sure whether you mean tonal harmonies or harmonics aka timbre) better than someone who doesn't? Sure, maybe they'd be better at picking out a bassoon in the mix than a metal fan, and a metal fan might be able to tell the difference between a Jackson guitar and a ESP guitar than the classical fan, but that's just due to familiarity, not their ove…

Hearing is a process that extends from your ear all the way through your brain. The hard line you think exists between “hear” and “familiarity” or “ear training” doesn’t exist. The last few years I’ve been spending around Vietnamese, and while I still speak relatively little of it, I’ve been able to slowly adjust to be able to separate out sounds and words that previously sounded like one big mess.

And that's something completely different. Language and music use similar parts of the brain, but you're just mashing audio perception together in a way that just isn't related and is not what the article is talking about.

Re: White noise improves learning by modulating activity in midbrain regions (2014)

#100

Post by nwienert »

alar44 wrote: post #99
nwienert wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hearing is a process that extends from your ear all the way through your brain. The hard line you think exists between “hear” and “familiarity” or “ear training” doesn’t exist. The last few years I’ve been spending around Vietnamese, and while I still speak relatively little of it, I’ve been able to slowly adjust to be able to separate out sounds and words that previously sounded like one big mess.

And that's something completely different. Language and music use similar parts of the brain, but you're just mashing audio perception together in a way that just isn't related and is not what the article is talking about.

You’re being overly strict in defining a general word, in a way that worsens understanding.

We aren’t computers with parts. There isn’t a microphone connected to a DSP, there’s a neural net on every level from signal processing up to whole experience.

When someone says “hear” they mean almost all of that pipeline, not just the mic quality.

Picking out a bassoon in the mix is hearing better, at the level that matters.

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