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Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

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Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#401

Post by mfkp »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #371
dmitrygr wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been disproven so many times, it is tiring to even try. Small amount, dispersed over huge distances. Current measurements indicate NO more lead in the blood of people near airports than not. It is only heard nowadays from land developers seeking to capitalize on a few acres among "the middle of $500k+ homes"

Don't forget the part about "gives them more performance" which is just an overt lie. They use it because aviation is regulated to high heaven and there are no approved alternatives yet.

> there are no approved alternatives yet

Not exactly, you can get STC approval to use mogas in most piston engines, it's just a hassle and expense so most people don't do it: https://www.autofuelstc.com/

Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#402

Post by ElephantsMyAnus »

ch4s3 wrote: post #397
ElephantsMyAnus wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't: https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Homicide_Rate_in_N... https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/01/14/national/crime-...

The Norway peak in 2011 is entirely from the Utøya mass homicide. Japan follows a similar curve despite starting and peaking later, 70% of those crimes for the whole period are nonviolent petty thefts. My mistake in including Japan doesn’t support either point your tried to make. Neither place has mass incarceration.

But there is no decline.

Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#403

Post by alar44 »

nicolas_t wrote: post #337

I was recently horrified to learn that the baby glass bottle I had been using with my baby had lead paint on it. https://tamararubin.com/2021/12/sailor-themed-glass-nuk-baby... Apparently, it's considered to be acceptable by current standards. Despite the fact that babies will obviously touch the bottle (and the paint) and then put their hands in their mouth. I bought glass bottles because I wanted to avoid plastic t…

Of course it's considered acceptable, lead doesn't just dissolve when you touch it and it's not like the paint is 100% lead. Our bodies are pretty resilient and you shouldn't be scared of super tiny trace things in the environment. Your baby probably receives much more lead exposure by breathing.

Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#404

Post by ska »

javert wrote: post #235
ska wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm pretty sure you'll find studies arguing for both sides, so we can only go on personal wisdom. Without opinion on the relative damage of both, I'll note that considering this a logical statement is really flawed. You can pretty much always find "studies arguing for both sides" on an issue, but that doesn't mean much in and of itself.

> Without opinion on the relative damage of both, I'll note that considering this a logical statement is really flawed. I can't understand what you are saying here. > You can pretty much always find "studies arguing for both sides" on an issue, but that doesn't mean much in and of itself. Just trying to cut off the expected "studies show X" comments before they get started. Because if studies aren't definitive, which…

> I can't understand what you are saying here.

My point was that you are actually very rarely in the case that studies are in conflict to the point that the best you can do is personal experience. It's the exception, not the rule.

To paraphrase Churchill: science is the worst system we have for understanding these sorts of things, except for all the others.

Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#405

Post by tomxor »

cma wrote: post #166
tomxor wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, this is basically the only realistic way to avoid it, switch to types of food that cannot by their very nature have sugar added.

I would imagine most of those fresh vegetables have been domesticated/bred to increase sugars.

You're probably right, but that's still a lot better than manufactured foods. Also the funny thing with fruit and veg is that the opposite can happen, with the "Red Delicious" as the leading example, bred for looks and lost all the taste.

Even without human interference, fruit can actually be bad for you if you eat it at the wrong time and in the wrong quantities - fructose has the same effect as sugar - but now we are basically getting into nutrition more generally which is a tricky subject. Fruit still comes with many other nutritional benefits compared to sugary manufactured snacks, and even fibre that make it worth while (note that orange juice, as minimally as we are processing the fruit, still allows you to consume it in unnatural quantity and concentration, which can be very bad).

Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#406

Post by ch4s3 »

ElephantsMyAnus wrote: post #391
ch4s3 wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why did Europe, Canada, Australia, and Japan see the same drops in crime? They all lock up a minuscule fraction of their populations by comparison and had larger or similar drops in crime. The timing is also wrong, the drop in crime started before incarceration ramped up. Also as I mentioned the plurality of incarceration is for nonviolent crime, a lot of which is simple drug possession.

They didn't: https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Homicide_Rate_in_N... https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/01/14/national/crime-...

The Nordic countries[1] all peak around '86-'92. Homicide is down world-wide since 1990[2]. This is a weird argument to make. I've never even encountered anyone who disagreed with this who has even a passing familiarity with criminology, economics, or broad societal trends.

I'm not even sure what you're actually arguing here. You're coming across like a contrarian who is frantically googling for a counter point.

Crime in Germany peaked in 1992[3]. Italy 1991 [4] Canada also 1991 [5]

[1] https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2%3A526664/FULLTEX... [2] https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Crime_drop [3] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?end=2018... [4] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?end=2018... [5] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?end=2018...

Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#407

Post by scythe »

mark-r wrote: post #169
scythe wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids aren't smoking weed when they're eight. Or four, for that matter.

Second-hand smoke?

I doubt SHS would ever cause the effects described, unless the exposure was truly massive. The complaint about marijuana affecting intelligence re: brain development hinges on the central effects of THC itself, while lung cancer from SHS typically involves DNA damage caused by contaminants in the smoke (ranging in size from nitric oxide to benzopyrene). DNA damage is typically considered with a linear-no-threshold-model[1] because any incident of DNA damage can have long-term effects on cancer risk, but neurotransmitters likely do have a threshold for long-term damage, because the rate of neuronal receptor activation has a natural range of variation, and disturbances within that range are unlikely to cause any kind of long-term effect, because they simulate the natural conditions.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_no-threshold_model - I should add that the way we deal with the LNTM in radiation protection is quite similar to the neuron model I just laid out: we look at the natural variation of radiation exposure and don't worry (much) about exposure less than that range.

Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#408

Post by rbanffy »

agentdrtran wrote: post #392
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

edit: My analysis is clearly unwelcome here.

People doing what's best for them can be very evil for others, like the fact that buildings full of lead paint and lead-leaking pipes have not been fixed.

> buildings full of lead paint and lead-leaking pipes have not been fixed.

That’s because a few IQ points in black and poor people is not considered more important than not using tax money to solve the problem.

Arguably, the added IQ points times the number of people affected would most likely have a positive effect on the GDP and would pay for the fix in a couple decades.

That we even think that we’d need to do the math to justify it is deeply depressing.

Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#409

Post by nwellinghoff »

A 150 USD RO/DI filter can remove all of this stuff. Black, white, poka dot. Buy one and run your drinking water through it. Also comes in handy when the water goes out. You can turn off from the mains and have clean water. Also pure enough to use in your radiator or water your venus fly trap! Highly recommend.

Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#410

Post by dmitrygr »

mfkp wrote: post #401
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget the part about "gives them more performance" which is just an overt lie. They use it because aviation is regulated to high heaven and there are no approved alternatives yet.

> there are no approved alternatives yet Not exactly, you can get STC approval to use mogas in most piston engines, it's just a hassle and expense so most people don't do it: https://www.autofuelstc.com/

That does not work for high-compression engines like io-550
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