Live data from Hacker News

Stripe: instant payment processing for developers

stripe.com

351–360 of 369 posts

Re: Stripe: instant payment processing for developers

#351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the problem with VAT. Just keep rack of where your customers are and pay the VAT on those in Europe. Where does the payment processor come into it? If you owe VAT then pay it.

It is not as simple as that, at least in the UK, and the fact that so many payment services seem to think it is explains why any UK business relying on them for payment processing is probably breaking the law. There are all kinds of rules on disclosure of VAT registration details on invoices, sequential numbering of VAT invoices (across an entire company) for audit purposes, etc. Any payment system that doesn't integ…

I have an online business selling globally operating out of the EU and I now know more about VAT than I care too. I agree that the rules can get quite complex but as far as I can tell the payment processor does not need to be able to do anything special other than the ability to store/display the required information with each transaction (date, sequential invoice number, and VAT number in the case of a B2B transaction). You can just put that in a free format field (in PayPal for example), that's all they would need to add I think.

Sure it would be nice if they stored tax (multiple rates possible on one invoice!) and VAT numbers in a separate field, it would be even nicer if they validated the VAT numbers for you, or the buyers location, but it can all be done outside the payment processor.

Re: Stripe: instant payment processing for developers

#352
post #286
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Patriot Act.

While this reply is short it is right. The Patriot Act is the reason why these nice things generally aren't available to non US citizens. Patriot Act Section 312: http://ithandbook.ffiec.gov/media/resources/3356/con-usa_pat... As you can see if you want to provide this service to a foreigner then you need to do checks on this person and his bank. This costs such much that most will decide that it is not cost effectiv…

This costs such much that most will decide that it is not cost effective to do so.

Well, why do their representatives insist it's a "top priority" then?

Re: Stripe: instant payment processing for developers

#353
post #349

Awesome. I have been waiting to have a better look at Stripe, it sounds so great. I have a question for someone who might know: how can Stripe operate without requiring it's users to sign up for a merchant account? Do they hold what is known as a 'master merchant account'? I am just curious as these sound notoriously difficult to get and might explain why it's US only for now, not to mention the AML considerations of…

We basically are trying to abstract away all the pain of creating merchant accounts and setting up with separate payment gateways. On the backend, we are partnering with Wells Fargo and First Data to set up whatever accounts are necessary to both get you started immediately while making sure you get all the benefits of a full-fledged merchant account.

Cool. I'm not a US citizen but it's great that you can do this and that Wells Fargo is on board as this is a killer feature in my opinion :).

Re: Stripe: instant payment processing for developers

#354
post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Stripe is in fact opening a merchant account fir each user that signs up? I am curious that a social security number is all that is required...why is it such a pain to get a merchant account with a bank or other acquirer? I am curious how Stripe can make it so simple.

There are two big reasons as to why it's so painful elsewhere. One is underwriting: people want to know a lot about your business so they can figure out if you're likely to be fraudulent (or expensively incompetent). They typically do this by taking a shotgun approach to information requirements. The second reason is that it's "standard", and everybody copies the "standard" without much consideration. The companies p…

Thanks Patrick.

I am curious as I am in fact an Australian citizen and know that a lot of people have a hard time here when trying to open a merchant account. From what I've read and heard it's traditionally a similar in the US and it is obviously one of the killer features of Stripe.

Was it hard for you to work with a bank (Wells Fargo) on this? From what I've heard banks are the main driver behind the 'shotgun' approach to information collection, at least here in Australia. I could well be wrong on this, hence I ask the question.

You are already doing a much better job than traditional companies on both accounts, it's great to watch and I'm sure you guys will continue to do great work.

Note: I just realised my spelling error in my previous post...iPhone autocorrect got the better of me!a

Re: Stripe: instant payment processing for developers

#355

US only. Well, I kind of knew it before even hitting FAQ. A bit of a rant here, but it's crazily difficult to do so many interesting things when you don't live in top-20 country (Lithuania here) Stripe? Nope. BrainTree? Nope. Recurly? Nope. Something else... Likely, Nope. And so, the only way to get paid is to deal with some of the most expensive and oldest gateways and merchant accounts. Oh, and: Hulu? Nope. iTunes?…

Have you looked into incorporating in the UK? It's probably quite a bit of hassle up-front but should solve this type of problem. Unlike in many (most?) European countries, incorporating a limited company in the UK is pretty cheap and straightforward in itself.

I don't see what incorporating in the UK would buy you. Payment processing here is a total clusterfuck.

Re: Stripe: instant payment processing for developers

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not as simple as that, at least in the UK, and the fact that so many payment services seem to think it is explains why any UK business relying on them for payment processing is probably breaking the law. There are all kinds of rules on disclosure of VAT registration details on invoices, sequential numbering of VAT invoices (across an entire company) for audit purposes, etc. Any payment system that doesn't integ…

I have an online business selling globally operating out of the EU and I now know more about VAT than I care too. I agree that the rules can get quite complex but as far as I can tell the payment processor does not need to be able to do anything special other than the ability to store/display the required information with each transaction (date, sequential invoice number, and VAT number in the case of a B2B transacti…

Indeed, but you do need to be able to store and display that information in the right places.

As you say, technically invoices are supposed to record the VAT against each line item, because the rates can be different for different types of product/service.

Regarding the serialised invoice numbers, if you as the merchant are having to keep track of such things then you're still doing some of the tedious work so the value of outsourcing the billing process is lessened. I agree that it might be viable to record the extra information in a separate field for one-off transactions, if the billing service allows that kind of annotation on transactions and your systems can generate the appropriate number taking into account any other sales channels you're also using.

Even then, for subscription services that renew automatically, there would need to be some robust mechanism for the billing service to "claim" the next invoice number when they collect a scheduled payment. Perhaps some of these services could cope with this, but I have yet to see one personally whose documentation explains how to set it up using their APIs and callbacks. And if you get to the point where you have to handle scheduling regular subscription payments on your in-house system to account for this, again you're defeating the point of outsourcing the billing in the first place.

IME, it doesn't take long before you have to do so much in-house anyway that you might as well do the lot and save yourself a signficant overhead and the additional risk/dependency of involving another organisation in your billing process. This sort of processing is tedious but not rocket science, so if you can't just wrap everything up and shove it out to a specialist service, avoiding having to go near that sort of stuff in-house at all, I just don't see how the cost/benefit of these services is going to make them attractive to a business here in the UK. YMMV, of course.

Re: Stripe: instant payment processing for developers

#358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Simply having chargebacks is never going to automatically cause your account to be terminated." False: "WePay reserves the right to close or put a hold on any account that has generated a ["a", as in "single"] chargeback." - https://www.wepay.com/about/terms No one talks about the ugly fine print. It's always "just a formality", until they need to use it against you, and that's exactly the kind of leverage a competi…

Well, to be clear, I'm only speaking about our own service, not WePay. Anyway, I think we've covered the issue here but if you feel like you need further discussion I suggest reaching out to support@stripe.com.

"I'm only speaking about our own service, not WePay."

Really? See: "We can terminate this agreement at any time (especially if you do something bad). Termination is effective immediately. Termination does not alter your liability for processed payments or related chargebacks." at the top of https://stripe.com/tos.

I won't bother with support, because you have not given me any real answer to the scenario which I presented. Your system thus appears to be just as easy to defraud as any other, possibly even easier, so I have no reason to trust an entity which can, and likely will, dip into my bank account to extract all sorts of fees and fines when things do go bad.

Re: Stripe: instant payment processing for developers

#359
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this reply is short it is right. The Patriot Act is the reason why these nice things generally aren't available to non US citizens. Patriot Act Section 312: http://ithandbook.ffiec.gov/media/resources/3356/con-usa_pat... As you can see if you want to provide this service to a foreigner then you need to do checks on this person and his bank. This costs such much that most will decide that it is not cost effectiv…

This costs such much that most will decide that it is not cost effective to do so. Well, why do their representatives insist it's a "top priority" then?

Presumably they will set up a company in Europe instead of handling it from the US company, but this takes extra time and effort so most companies start in the US (and empirically they stay that way until they become very big).

Re: Stripe: instant payment processing for developers

#360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an online business selling globally operating out of the EU and I now know more about VAT than I care too. I agree that the rules can get quite complex but as far as I can tell the payment processor does not need to be able to do anything special other than the ability to store/display the required information with each transaction (date, sequential invoice number, and VAT number in the case of a B2B transacti…

Indeed, but you do need to be able to store and display that information in the right places. As you say, technically invoices are supposed to record the VAT against each line item, because the rates can be different for different types of product/service. Regarding the serialised invoice numbers, if you as the merchant are having to keep track of such things then you're still doing some of the tedious work so the va…

Agreed, there are no services offering recurring payments (in Europe anyway) that do the whole thing, and I would love to outsource more if I could since billing is a nuisance that just detracts so much from the actual business. We currently use PayPal but that doesn't even allow you to pro-rate subscriptions when up- or downgrading. I noticed in the API docs that stripe.com at least has that one covered already.
Post reply on HN