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Venting doesn’t work

slate.com

101–110 of 193 posts

Re: Venting doesn’t work

#101

I've found the problem with venting can be that it cements an idea in your head. This is particularly true with people. If I find myself venting that doesn't know what the heck they're doing, I've internally solidified that belief. If improves, if I'm on another project with where they clearly have a lot of knowledge, then it can still be too late. I've verbalized to myself ( and worse, my partner ) that X is incompe…

I agree with this to some extent, but I think when I get to the point of externally venting I've already pretty strongly internalized the thought. My larger concern with venting is that it seems to encourage bad next step coping strategies for me. I vent that "X is terrible so it's hard for me to get anything done" and oftentimes this gets validated in a way that encourages the "not getting anything done" part, which isn't helpful even when X actually is terrible. There's a fine line between recognizing that you're in a difficult situation and giving yourself an excuse to fail, at least for me.

Like a lot of things, venting is probably good in moderation, as long as you are able to keep it in moderation. The most recent situation I was in I had trouble telling how much of the problem was on me, and then by venting to some coworkers I pretty quickly discovered that nearly everyone felt the same way about X. This was comforting at first, but the more we vented the more I felt justified in blowing off work. I didn't even replace that time with anything personally productive unfortunately. I've regrouped now and am working on getting out of the project the right way, but I wish I handled it better in the first place.

Re: Venting doesn’t work

#102
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the value of an anecdote: in my grieving process, I tried several forms of catharsis: hitting a heavy bag, yelling, running and biking angry. In every case, it made me more angry. I got worse. The anger turned inward. It wasn't until I stopped that approach that I made any progress in my grief. > Any sort of cathartic experience would necessarily be self-reported and we all know the accuracy of self-report studie…

> Since the students weren’t randomly assigned to either vent or not, it’s possible that the most anxious are the ones who chose to vent (so that venting was correlated with increased anxiety, not the cause of it)

Yes, that particular study may have flaws in its execution. But that doesn't prove that studies on venting are necessarily self-reporting.

Re: Venting doesn’t work

#103

I think they've missed the point. Venting isn't for catharsis; It's for seeking validation. When you vent TO someone and they lend a sympathetic ear, it's a huge help. Venting is a social bonding ritual. You generally don't get this online because most of the audience is NOT sympathetic, so you'll get criticism after criticism, making things even worse.

100% agree.

Anger usually stems from a boundary being violated. It's our instinctive evolved response for pushing back against someone who has encroached on us.

When we "vent" to a peer, it is relieving because it transfers that personal boundary to a group boundary. We feel "OK, my peer will now back me up the next time this happens."

Venting is like yelling for reinforcements when you see someone storming your corner of the castle wall.

Re: Venting doesn’t work

#104

Stop using small sample sized studies done on college campuses (n = 600, 178, 60) to push clickbait headline articles. Sounds like saying, "Don't cry when you're sad it Doesn't Work" How about let people do what they want? People vent because they want to know they aren't crazy or at fault. Not because they're trying to be calm or forget grievances.

Bad science reporting and Slate go hand in hand.

Clickbait is what they do.

Re: Venting doesn’t work

#105

Stop using small sample sized studies done on college campuses (n = 600, 178, 60) to push clickbait headline articles. Sounds like saying, "Don't cry when you're sad it Doesn't Work" How about let people do what they want? People vent because they want to know they aren't crazy or at fault. Not because they're trying to be calm or forget grievances.

On the other hand, if these sorts of cathartic expressions of anger did reliably "work" at dissipating anger, I would expect it to show up in even small samples of college students? For it not to show up, either the effect only shows up in certain circumstances or it's actually not very strong.

Re: Venting doesn’t work

#106
post #58

Stop using small sample sized studies done on college campuses (n = 600, 178, 60) to push clickbait headline articles. Sounds like saying, "Don't cry when you're sad it Doesn't Work" How about let people do what they want? People vent because they want to know they aren't crazy or at fault. Not because they're trying to be calm or forget grievances.

"Researchers first criticized essays written by the study participants and then told some of them to hit a punching bag. Afterward, they gave them all an opportunity to blast loud noise at the person who had insulted their writing. People in the bag-hitting groups reported experiencing more anger and were more likely to blast noise than those who did nothing." This does sound like a selection bias and priming. You ha…

> selection bias and priming

"priming" has had something of a fall from grace.

> The studies of behavioral priming that I had cited in the chapter were largely discredited in the famous replication crisis of psychology... behavioral priming research is effectively dead.

https://www.edge.org/adversarial-collaboration-daniel-kahnem...

Re: Venting doesn’t work

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's mischaracterization of catharsis. As for releasing intense emotional strain - you're more likely to lash out. Have you tried not punching the wall and have a time out instead? Because people who "punch the wall" are, according to multiple studies, more likely to lash out and be abusive.

> Because people who "punch the wall" are, according to multiple studies, more likely to lash out and be abusive. Presumably the wall-punching and tendency toward other physical/emotional abuses are tied to one or more underlying common causes. That is, people shouldn't be told to punch a wall (for cartharsis) or even necessarily not to do so (because it'll make you abusive), but those for whom that is a temptation o…

I guess that's my point, how do you disentangle the need for cathartic outburst from the negative connotations and actual perhaps small positive impact of the cathartic outburst? Is practicing karate and punching boards on a schedule ok?

Re: Venting doesn’t work

#108
post #92

Can't help but think the term "toxic," discredits the whole thing as a vehicle for something else. Aggression is natural and universal, but the tools for expressing and self-regulating it are not. One description of it that resonated personally for me was Robert Sapolsky's "depression is aggression turned inward," and while the phrase doesn't do the whole idea justice, it's more useful than hollow and seductive clich…

Can you expand on how an intense relationship can enable turning aggression inward? I’m genuinely curious about this idea.

I think by intense he implies with a lot of pressure from the other side. And like in most relationships we often try to internalise our stress in fear to make things worse and loose that relationship.If it's intense stress it's far more noticible.

Re: Venting doesn’t work

#109
From my purely anecdotal experience with mentoring younger people, I've seen two main categories of venting:

1) Venting about frustrations by talking them through with someone who will listen. This forces people to put their frustrations into words and elucidate the narrative as they put it into words. This can not only help people identify their feelings and work through them, but it also forces people to decide what a mature response would be. Once you start venting to someone you know, especially someone you respect, you have an incentive to present a mature interpretation and approach to the situation. This can help immensely.

2) The other group tends to want to avoid the mature response part, and instead wants to seek sympathy and confirmation for their frustrations. They deliberately avoid discussing these issues with respected peers or mentors because they know their response is unhealthy and not a good look. They embrace online forums like Reddit and Twitter where they're free to give one-sided stories without fear of their peers calling them out for exaggerating or stretching the details. This type of venting doesn't solve anything because they don't really want solutions in the first place. There's something rewarding or perhaps freeing about hunkering down in the victim role and being showered with sympathy from random internet strangers.

I haven't seen any reason to believe the first type of venting (discussing with respected peers, seeking feedback and solutions in the process) is anything but helpful. However, the latter type of venting (online venting to collect sympathy) does seem to be quite damaging from my limited experience. There's something dangerous about going online to bond with others and seek personal affirmation in a way that's fueled by venting frustrations and victimizations. Once inside of those circles, there's an incentive to continue bringing more frustrations and more victimizations to the table to keep the bonding and community contact flowing.

The story in the article about going to a park to scream together raises my red flags as such a situation: It becomes an in-group thing where you need to adopt an outward appearance of being very frustrated to fit in with the other people in the group. Not a good incentive for improving the situation.

Re: Venting doesn’t work

#110
> Neuroscience—specifically, neural plasticity—explains why venting reinforces negative emotions. You can think of our brain circuitry like hiking trails. The ones that get a lot of traffic get smoother and wider, with brush stomped down and pushed back.

That is so bad. It assumes that the brain uses one pathway for (different forms of) aggression and one neural mechanism for adapting behavior. It also assumes that the effect is cumulative. None of these are true.

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