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If you speak Russian, call Russia and tell them what is happening in Ukraine

callrussia.org

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Re: If you speak Russian, call Russia and tell them what is happening in Ukraine

#161

Post by azangru »

quinncom wrote: post #144
azangru wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Must Russians don't even know there's a war. How can you know this?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/06/world/europe/ukraine-russ...

Maybe I misunderstood what was meant in the parent comment.

The Russians may not know, or believe, that there is the shelling of cities with mass casualties among civilians. But they certainly know that Russia is somehow militarily involved in Ukraine right now. Even if they only consume the state-run media, they would have heard this from Putin himself. They know that their economy is collapsing; they know that various payment systems have stopped working; they know that imported consumer goods are disappearing from the shelves, and that stores of international brands are closing. Whether whatever is causing this is called a “special military operation” or a "war" is not a matter of knowledge, but a matter of language usage.

Re: If you speak Russian, call Russia and tell them what is happening in Ukraine

#162

Post by saurik »

drno123 wrote: post #130

When US invaded Iraq (because of false claims about weapons of mass destruction), people did not call random numbers in America. And ordinary Americans did not do anything to stop their government from invading another country on false premises.

So are you saying maybe people should have called random numbers in the United States?

Re: If you speak Russian, call Russia and tell them what is happening in Ukraine

#163

Post by elliekelly »

drno123 wrote: post #130

When US invaded Iraq (because of false claims about weapons of mass destruction), people did not call random numbers in America. And ordinary Americans did not do anything to stop their government from invading another country on false premises.

I posted a few days ago about how seeing Canadians protest against the war in Iraq made me question the premise of the US invasion. It’s not the same as a phone call and I didn’t have any say in the matter because I was only a teenager but I do think the perspective of an “outsider” can sometimes shake you out of blind acceptance or at least put some cracks in the foundation. I suspect a “trusted” outsider would be a lot more persuasive, though. A phone call from a random Belarusian or Kazakhstani would probably carry a lot more weight than a random Westerner.

Re: If you speak Russian, call Russia and tell them what is happening in Ukraine

#164

Post by remarkEon »

tpoacher wrote: post #30

What a silly plan. Consider the reverse situation. You are a US citizen, and your phone randomly rings. On the other line, there is a guy speaking English with a heavy russian accent: "Hello. I call from Russia. This website I find ask me to call and inform you of real happenings in Ukraine. Your media full of lies. Trust me. Look. I have pen." Yeah I can totally see Americans taking up arms against their government…

I'm glad this is the top comment because this is indeed an absurd and ridiculous plan. It's pretty amazing how many people in this thread and in MSM are copy/pasting the exact playbook run by Dick Cheney and his gang of liars, and doing a "Ctrl-F" to replace "terrorist" with "Russian". Notice as well that these analyses are not making a claim that Ukraine itself represents some specific national interest to the US and NATO, security or otherwise. The tone is consistently vengeful and demonizing. The difference between 2022 and 2003 is a matter of velocity in terms of how quickly the fervor can spread via our technology, and how difficult it is to pare back the insane calls for escalation.

Part of Putin's narrative of control is that the west is out to get ordinary Russians and have been since the Berlin Wall came down. Much of what we've done over the last several weeks in response to this crisis is making that fiction a reality in the minds of Russians. This "call random Russians, troll them" idea is part of that same general philosophy that's making it so easy for people to advocate things that would directly lead to WWIII with a rather uncomfortably high probability that we'd see the use of tactical nuclear weapons (a no-fly zone for just one example).

Re: If you speak Russian, call Russia and tell them what is happening in Ukraine

#165

Post by remarkEon »

elliekelly wrote: post #156
fourseventy wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we are at "war" right now, then what is it called when US troops roll tanks into Russia... "super war"? Words have definitions. The definition of war is "a state of armed conflict between different nations or states or different groups within a nation or state."

You say it’s not a war and then offer a definition of war that very clearly applies to the current scenario.

If that scenario is defined as "Russia and Ukraine are currently engaged in battle" then sure. The United States and NATO are not at war with Russia and I'd prefer it stay that way.

Re: If you speak Russian, call Russia and tell them what is happening in Ukraine

#166

Post by mcguire »

whoisthemachine wrote: post #148
tpoacher wrote: post #30

What a silly plan. Consider the reverse situation. You are a US citizen, and your phone randomly rings. On the other line, there is a guy speaking English with a heavy russian accent: "Hello. I call from Russia. This website I find ask me to call and inform you of real happenings in Ukraine. Your media full of lies. Trust me. Look. I have pen." Yeah I can totally see Americans taking up arms against their government…

To be fair, Russia _does_ do a version of this extensively, with bots on social media. It still only manages to have some (maybe?) effect on ~30-40% of Americans, so your point stands, the tactic has limited effectiveness.

"Limited effectiveness"

Even a tiny effect on that much of the population is huge.

Re: If you speak Russian, call Russia and tell them what is happening in Ukraine

#167

Post by mcguire »

krapp wrote: post #52
tpoacher wrote: post #30

What a silly plan. Consider the reverse situation. You are a US citizen, and your phone randomly rings. On the other line, there is a guy speaking English with a heavy russian accent: "Hello. I call from Russia. This website I find ask me to call and inform you of real happenings in Ukraine. Your media full of lies. Trust me. Look. I have pen." Yeah I can totally see Americans taking up arms against their government…

No, think about it. We have all of these free speech advocates who insist that sunlight is the best disinfectant, that only necessary response to misinformation is information, that one simply needs to engage with extremists in rational debate on the facts, etc. Let them loose on the Russian public and the war could be over in a matter of days!

In case anyone doesn't recognize it, this is sarcasm.

Re: If you speak Russian, call Russia and tell them what is happening in Ukraine

#168

Post by q1w2 »

rini17 wrote: post #46

I am from Czechoslovakia, trying to imagine what would happen in 1980s if people then were getting unexpected political calls from unknown foreigners. They would mostly assume it is a secret service provocation and react accordingly. Yes that's hard to believe for westerners that your own state would do such nasty stuff to you, but it was commonplace then. Shortwave radio station that is possible to tune to in Moscow…

What might work is Russians living in the west with family in Russia, call their family, ask them how they are doing with all the chaos/sanctions/etc.

Care about the people there. THEN you can tell them that you've been watching the footage showing Russian convoys are being ambushed and bombed in the roads - that the advance has stalled. That you've seen videos of Russian kids surrendering and dead - Russian losses are much higher than the Russian media is claiming. Ask them if they have any friends and family with men fighting and convey your concern for them.

You are trying to convince them of your authenticity and shared values - that is how you influence someone.

Then tell them that the Russian generals have become frustrated and started mass bombing of the cities - killing many thousands of civilians.

The real villain is Putin and his dogs. Wish them well and pray for them. We are in this together with the majority of the Russian people. You guys should hear the Russian moms calling the Ukrainian helpline crying for any information about their conscripted sons.

Re: If you speak Russian, call Russia and tell them what is happening in Ukraine

#169

Post by efitz »

This and all the cancel type activists seem like an extraordinary case of “do-something-itis”.

How does it impact Ukrainians if a cat competition bans the breed “Russian Blue”[1]?

As others on this thread have pointed out, an anonymous call from a foreign stranger is extremely unlikely to change minds on a political issue (we can’t even change the political opinions of family members at Thanksgiving Dinner). Seems like a waste of effort.

Doing something meaningful is HARD. You can’t just make a phone call or a tweet or TikTok or put a Ukrainian flag emoji in your social media profile. Acting out like pouring out Russian vodka may actually be harming people who support your cause; maybe the CEO of the vodka company is a Putin opponent. Maybe the vodka isn’t even from Russia [2](most isn’t). You don’t know. You can’t know how your virtue signaling is going to harm people, but I promise you it’s not going accomplish your stated goals (prove me wrong with a counter-example showing how this stopped a war). At best, it will make already like minded people like you more.

You have to obtain political power which is mostly done by organizing other like minded people and/or donations to influencable people with power. You have to amass enough power to make the change you want effected. Then you have to wield that power effectively, and hope that your opponents aren’t more successful in their opposing activities.

There’s no short cut.

[1] https://www.businessinsider.com.au/chinas-social-media-obses... [2] https://www.newsweek.com/officials-pour-out-vodka-protest-wa...

Re: If you speak Russian, call Russia and tell them what is happening in Ukraine

#170

Post by mcguire »

josephwegner wrote: post #12

I would probably advise against doing this. There have been rumors of Russian police looking through citizen's phones for indications that they are engaging with western viewpoints on the "special operation". And the penalty for such activities is quite high right now. A random phone call from a U.S. citizen might look suspicious, and I don't imagine Russian police are giving much benefit of the doubt right now.

On the other hand, everyone having a random call from a US citizen would provide a lot of cover for other traffic.
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