Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study • Hacker News Board

Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#221

Post by giobox » Tue, Mar 08, 2022, 5:42 PM UTC

version_five wrote: post #180

Scalestein wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree 100% with the potency concerns. Many of the studies showing negative impact were using standards like "10 joints a day" which was easy to dismiss as that was an unreasonable amount of weed for most people. Now with wax, tinctures and 20%+ THC strains becoming the normal it seems really easy for many people to be hitting those previously unrealistic dosages.

I'm curious, because I have not heard of wax or tinctures, do you think those are things that more people will use, vs people who would have used some hard drugs anyway? What I mean is, there will always be some hard drug users, now from the discussion I understand some "hard" THC products exist, will this result in any kind of demographic change like the OP worried about, or is it just a new drug of abuse? Just beca…

Just anecdota of course, but waxes and tinctures are routinely promoted and offered in discount deals at virtually any legal weed dispensary in the USA. They are IMO increasingly mainstream, as they often work nicely with tools like vaporizers which more and more young people use to consume.

Technology has massively changed how people consume cannabis - many people today may have never rolled or smoked a traditional joint ever. You can buy it in ready to load resin cartridges powered by a LiIon battery. Many of these things produce cold vapor that makes it staggeringly easy to smoke an enormous quantity. At least with a joint, there normally comes a point one's throat will probably not thank you for continuing... The cold vapor from many vaporizers is almost odor free too, meaning people can consume in places they couldn't previously.

Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#222

Post by rdiddly » Tue, Mar 08, 2022, 5:42 PM UTC

legitster wrote: post #61

I have a strong worries that our current generation will have a similar huge reckoning with marijuana. We are already seeing studies that show regular marijuana use is correlated with permanent decreases in intelligence, memory loss, motivation, and mental health. And anecdotally, this seems very apparent in my peer group. And Americans are using copious amounts of the stuff right now, and younger than ever before. I…

I see your point, but just want to draw a line between something you ingest willingly that affects only you, and something foisted semi-secretly on the entire public by a special interest (basically to make cars and/or fuel more marketable) despite their knowing, almost from the beginning, how toxic it was. (One of many great examples of humans using technology because they can, without giving due consideration to whether they should.) I would rather the law protected me from the actions of others, and let me be the one to worry about what I do to myself.

[Edit: Which isn't to say there couldn't be a very persuasive weed marketing campaign or something, that influences people to use it and hides the negative effects. Just as there was a campaign to squelch public debate about the negative effects of tetraethyl lead. Nonetheless, being able to individually decide to reject inhaling lead, like you can with pot, would've been a welcome privilege.]

Not sure what "current" generation means, by the way. I'm currently alive, and currently, I'm in the same generation I've always been in. (I'm not mad, just teasing you a bit.)

Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#223

Post by jl6 » Tue, Mar 08, 2022, 5:42 PM UTC

eloff wrote: post #216

legitster wrote: post #61

I have a strong worries that our current generation will have a similar huge reckoning with marijuana. We are already seeing studies that show regular marijuana use is correlated with permanent decreases in intelligence, memory loss, motivation, and mental health. And anecdotally, this seems very apparent in my peer group. And Americans are using copious amounts of the stuff right now, and younger than ever before. I…

To be fair there are also studies showing alcohol has similar effects on the brain. I saw one just yesterday: "A large study of more than 36,000 high-quality MRI brain scans has found that drinking four units of alcohol a day – two beers, or two glasses of wine – causes structural damage and brain volume loss equivalent to 10 years of aging." https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-28735-5 I always said I would ne…

I don’t think it should come as a massive surprise to anyone that alcohol isn’t exactly good for you.

Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#224

Post by BTCOG » Tue, Mar 08, 2022, 5:43 PM UTC

version_five wrote: post #180

Scalestein wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree 100% with the potency concerns. Many of the studies showing negative impact were using standards like "10 joints a day" which was easy to dismiss as that was an unreasonable amount of weed for most people. Now with wax, tinctures and 20%+ THC strains becoming the normal it seems really easy for many people to be hitting those previously unrealistic dosages.

I'm curious, because I have not heard of wax or tinctures, do you think those are things that more people will use, vs people who would have used some hard drugs anyway? What I mean is, there will always be some hard drug users, now from the discussion I understand some "hard" THC products exist, will this result in any kind of demographic change like the OP worried about, or is it just a new drug of abuse? Just beca…

Dude, literally millions of people are dabbing wax and vaping 95% purity THC all day every day in just the US. Millions. Not just in legal states, and not just delta-9-THC. There's all 50 states legal hexahydrocannabinol carts from hemp, delta-8,10 THC and THC-O acetate widely available. Not sure though why an article about lead exposure turned into a Reefer Madness spook campaign. If one were looking for parallels I think one would lean towards something like widespread use of PFAAS chems or something. Smoking plants is up to an individual.

Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#225

Post by dTal » Tue, Mar 08, 2022, 5:43 PM UTC

giobox wrote: post #195

coding123 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does seem weird to me that about 5-10% of a grocery store is bottles of alcohol.

Fluids consume large amounts of shelf space by volume regardless of what fluid it is, not much we can do about this, so a large amount of shelf space does not mean a large percentage of the store's total items, in theory. By percentage of total items, it's likely very small for most supermarkets. See also the large amount of shelf space typically required to stock bottled water and soft drinks.

The variety of alcohol on offer does seem a tad perverse, in a way that status quo bias renders difficult to perceive. How many brands of bottled water do you usually see? Half a dozen, tops? And much of the volume in that aisle is occupied by huge 16-packs and giant carriers. Meanwhile the average wine aisle has hundreds of different brands, nearly all no more than 75cl, and might even stretch to two aisles in a large supermarket. It dwarfs the available selection of any other category of product. And that's before we get into the bafflingly endless rows of spirits.

Is this a healthy relationship with what is, in the final analysis, an intoxicating drug? If there were an aisle in every supermarket with 10 times as much cannabis as you'd currently find in the average dispensary, would we regard that as equally normal?

Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#226

Post by jozvolskyef » Tue, Mar 08, 2022, 5:43 PM UTC

miketery wrote: post #20

softwarebeware wrote: post #10

It makes me angry to think of how wreckless the generations before millenials were. Lead's risks and damages were well-known long before 1996. And they still didn't ban it until then.

Same goes for sugar. We know the dangers it poses, we are also seeing how much it increases risk of death due to covid. I don't think we should be surpsied, as much as pushing to regulate this garbage. As an aside, Michelle Obama's campaign when Obama was in office was about improvement children's health. Her focus was going to be on nutrition (lunch food). Shortly thereafter Coke and Pepsi came in with "donations" a…

One major aspect that makes sugar a category of its own is that there is a safe dose, and the safe dose isn't small. It's very easy to count how much you consume and not all cultures suffer from overconsumption.

Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#227

Post by Scalestein » Tue, Mar 08, 2022, 5:43 PM UTC

version_five wrote: post #180

Scalestein wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree 100% with the potency concerns. Many of the studies showing negative impact were using standards like "10 joints a day" which was easy to dismiss as that was an unreasonable amount of weed for most people. Now with wax, tinctures and 20%+ THC strains becoming the normal it seems really easy for many people to be hitting those previously unrealistic dosages.

I'm curious, because I have not heard of wax or tinctures, do you think those are things that more people will use, vs people who would have used some hard drugs anyway? What I mean is, there will always be some hard drug users, now from the discussion I understand some "hard" THC products exist, will this result in any kind of demographic change like the OP worried about, or is it just a new drug of abuse? Just beca…

This is all anecdotal but I have multiple friends who smoke regularly for years. I would consider them heavy smokers, think 5+ joints a day. Once their states had recreational or easily obtainable medicinal marijuana and the retail shops that come with it they quickly started moving into the concentrates and waxes. Now they regularly are going through grams of concentrates and going back to their previously "heavy-use" of 5 joints a day would barely scratch their itch.

The availability of vape pens also makes it REALLY easy to end up smoking way more than you would otherwise and as an easy way to start smoking in general. I smoke and enjoy the convenience of pens but they are perfect tools for increasing cannabis consumption in a population.

It is almost as if flower based cannabis is a gateway drug to these concentrated forms and I think it is really easy to go down that path as an already regular user. It's more economical, potentially better for you (less smoking) and now very easy to obtain.

I think the "overton window" of cannabis use is being shifted to the heavier end. Casual users will probably stay about the same but regular and heavier users will all shift to more or higher potency consumption.

Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#228

Post by mandmandam » Tue, Mar 08, 2022, 5:43 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #212

legitster wrote: post #61

I have a strong worries that our current generation will have a similar huge reckoning with marijuana. We are already seeing studies that show regular marijuana use is correlated with permanent decreases in intelligence, memory loss, motivation, and mental health. And anecdotally, this seems very apparent in my peer group. And Americans are using copious amounts of the stuff right now, and younger than ever before. I…

I’m against legalization. I thought it was just going to be a humane alternative to putting people in jail. But instead we’ve just broken down the social norm against drug use. Parts of DC now smell strongly of weed during the middle of the day.

Is that your strongest argument? A smell?

If anything broke down the social norm against drug use it was the heroin and opioid epidemics.. Which started shortly after Afghanistan.

Probably the trillions of dollars pumped into feeding terrorism instead of going on free school lunches and the like pushed people into drug use as well.

Seriously, I don't know how people can miss the mark this far. Yet apparently many in DC do, and it's getting REAL OLD.

Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#229

Post by dylan604 » Tue, Mar 08, 2022, 5:44 PM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #24

softwarebeware wrote: post #10

It makes me angry to think of how wreckless the generations before millenials were. Lead's risks and damages were well-known long before 1996. And they still didn't ban it until then.

I don't think it helps to make this a generational warfare issue. Especially since it's not like every person in a particular generation had a say in these decisions. It's also too easy to cast judgement backwards in time, given the lack of context and the benefit of hindsight. Better to look forward.

Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

We saw it with tobacco/lead/etc, so it's only natural/right to apply that experience to other things. Theorizing that sugar/THC could also fall into the same model is not wasting of anyone's time. If evidence is found that it is bad, then good can come from that knowledge. If evidence is found that it is not bad, then party on Wayne. But the studies should be conducted. Let's look forward to having actual knowledge rather than just blindly carrying on in the dark with no flashlight to guide.

Re: Lead exposure in last century shrunk IQ scores of half of Americans: study

#230

Post by slg » Tue, Mar 08, 2022, 5:46 PM UTC

legitster wrote: post #61

I have a strong worries that our current generation will have a similar huge reckoning with marijuana. We are already seeing studies that show regular marijuana use is correlated with permanent decreases in intelligence, memory loss, motivation, and mental health. And anecdotally, this seems very apparent in my peer group. And Americans are using copious amounts of the stuff right now, and younger than ever before. I…

>I have a strong worries that our current generation will have a similar huge reckoning with...

I thought that sentence was going to end with "Covid".[1] Research was just published yesterday which indicates that even mild cases have resulted in damage to the brain. Meanwhile, over the last few months we have just accepted that everyone is going to get it eventually. Who knows what the long term impact will be of us all giving ourselves a little brain damage?

EDIT: It is funny that the HN community's commitment to moving on from the pandemic has gotten to the point in which linking to research that suggests maybe getting Covid is bad is downvoted.

[1] - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04569-5