Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader • Hacker News Board

Re: Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader

#91

Post by zpeti » Tue, Mar 08, 2022, 5:19 PM UTC

pavlov wrote: post #35

mrtksn wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, Steve Jobs didn't luck out. Instead, he never went through the filters. Had he tried to become an Aircraft Engineer or a Doctor, he might get filtered out but he and Woz ventured into an unestablished field that was about to boom. There were no filters to keep him out and though he lacked a scholar formation he was exceptionally brilliant and managed to walk the path better than the most. Peter Thiel says…

I don’t agree with Thiel on a lot of things, but in this instance I do. When someone says “I’m very competitive,” I hear that they want to live inside boxes created by other people.

Ha. That’s an amazingly profound statement.

Re: Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader

#92

Post by stakkur » Tue, Mar 08, 2022, 5:20 PM UTC

There's no such thing as a 'natural-born leader'.

Re: Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader

#93

Post by yardie » Tue, Mar 08, 2022, 5:24 PM UTC

JKCalhoun wrote: post #30

Some 15 years ago or so? I don't remember. I was working at Apple on the color and graphics team. I don't even to this day remember what the exact circumstance was, but for some reason me and another engineer were urgently called into a conference room just a week or so before some big Apple product reveal. I feel like it was when the "Aqua" UI was to be revealed — I feel like it was something about the seven label c…

Around that time I was shipped out to do a video presentation with 3 laptops. 2 of them were cued up with Powerpoint and synchronized to play at the same time. If one went down I could switchover seamlessly. I also had a cold backup laptop in case the 2 running laptops failed.

The only presentation I've seen where I think Jobs went off the script was when the 3G and wifi went down in Moscone and the demo phone couldn't open Facetime, IIRC. Telling a bunch of journalists to stop live streaming went about as well as you could imagine.

Re: Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader

#94

Post by zpeti » Tue, Mar 08, 2022, 5:25 PM UTC

zcw100 wrote: post #2

What really set Steve Jobs apart is that he never should have gotten to where he did. I don't mean he didn't deserve it or anything but based on that structures that exist to filter people who attain the positions that he did. By luck, or accident, or raw determination, he became a person in the drivers seat that no one would have chose to put there. He was so much not the person they would have chosen that they kick…

Jobs is the type of rockstar genius who is basically world famous by about 27, at which point they either overdose or are reborn in some way.

People like this have some intuitive knowledge of the world that is right, and they know it. They don’t get wiser or more clever over time, they just are. Same as musical or chess prodigy children.

Almost all of these people are assholes by definition, because you can’t be a 27 year old genius and have certainty in yourself without it.

That certainty and genius also usually brings a big following, because most people want to follow people like this because they create things bigger than themselves.

Its also a very high risk life path. For every Steve Jobs there’s 100 geniuses who probably die without ever getting famous. Or they die at 27 like cobain, winehouse or avicii.

Re: Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader

#95

Post by mason55 » Tue, Mar 08, 2022, 5:27 PM UTC

JKCalhoun wrote: post #30

Some 15 years ago or so? I don't remember. I was working at Apple on the color and graphics team. I don't even to this day remember what the exact circumstance was, but for some reason me and another engineer were urgently called into a conference room just a week or so before some big Apple product reveal. I feel like it was when the "Aqua" UI was to be revealed — I feel like it was something about the seven label c…

> A single "ad-lib" in a demo of course could have exposed a hitherto-not-seen bug that would be hugely embarrassing.

It’s crazy what a small thing this is that people just don’t consider. We have this conversation with the sales team all the time, helping them prepare all their demos and pre-can as much as possible (eg instead of building a report in real time, just save the parameters and open your saved version).

Inevitably they veer off script for no real reason and then complain that they found a bug in a feature that they tried for the first time live in a demo.

Re: Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader

#96

Post by aesopsfable » Tue, Mar 08, 2022, 5:28 PM UTC

hnlmorg wrote: post #74

mrtksn wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't assume that Steve Jobs thought of the iPhone when having a shower or anything. As with every idea, it must have evolved as people worked on other stuff. In the case of iPhone, we know how it came to existence, it is a story told countless times. Didn't Nokia had R&D department? Of course they did and I'm sure that they also had brilliant designers and engineers who did amazing work. They simply lacked a Steve…

You say that as if Nokia didn't produce some world class products but they did. There was a era when Nokia handsets were the one everyone wanted. And they were instrumental in building GSM, of which without no mobile phones would exist, let alone iPhones. I'm not going to deny that Nokia lost their way with Symbian handsets but my point is I don't see Apple as being uniquely brilliant. You often see this tide where o…

Not to belittle Nokia or anything, they took already available eg. smart calculators' digital displays adopted to GSM phones.

Steve Jobs (Apple) did something no one ever expected, knew, or supported at the time (Steve Ballmer reaction*)

Although they make great objects of desire, Toyota is no Tesla, Nokia is no Apple.

Wozniak is acting like an ex partner probably because he owes his entire identity to Jobs, an identity that he enjoys but perhaps coming from an ex he never liked, maybe he's seeking catharsis.

Perhaps feeling indebted to a bully who he never recovered from, not being able to reach that peak again on his own, is the reason why we get these interviews from him where he says these things about Jobs. Who knows.

Re: Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader

#97

Post by newaccount74 » Tue, Mar 08, 2022, 5:30 PM UTC

WhompingWindows wrote: post #72

In a tech world with dozens of "amazing leaders", is it possible that some of them just got lucky? They took some shots in the dark, some got lucky, some got unlucky: can it be that simple? If Steve Jobs was coming up today, could he have owned leetcode and tech interviews, would he have gotten a CS degree, could he have succeeded in a start-up today? Could many of us here in tech now have done what he did? My point…

I really don't think Steve Jobs was taking shots in the dark. He had remarkable foresight and an uncanny ability to see where the puck was going.

Not all of his ideas worked out. But he had a very high success rate.

Doing leetcode and tech interviews is not what a young Steve Jobs would be working on today; a young Steve Jobs today would be working on something that most of us wouldn't bother with because we don't see the potential.

Re: Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader

#98

Post by mason55 » Tue, Mar 08, 2022, 5:31 PM UTC

deutschew wrote: post #76

WhompingWindows wrote: post #72

In a tech world with dozens of "amazing leaders", is it possible that some of them just got lucky? They took some shots in the dark, some got lucky, some got unlucky: can it be that simple? If Steve Jobs was coming up today, could he have owned leetcode and tech interviews, would he have gotten a CS degree, could he have succeeded in a start-up today? Could many of us here in tech now have done what he did? My point…

Poker tournament is often called the microcosm of our own capitalistic "democratic" world and as I learn how to play it more and more I realize how true this is. As you've said luck is a very very important factor. As you get lucky, you tend to continue getting lucky because the more chips (capital) the cost of failure or unlucky runs is a lot lower than somebody about to be knocked out of the tournament. Playing tig…

The other important major lesson that poker teaches you is that you can make the right decision and still lose, along with the corollaries (winning/losing doesn’t mean you made the right/wrong decision).

Re: Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader

#99

Post by drBonkers » Tue, Mar 08, 2022, 5:34 PM UTC

dogman144 wrote: post #55

hnthrowaway0315 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in times of distress/startup such charismatic leaders were often chosen to lead. Basically he WANTS to lead while others just lead because they rise up. He has stronger will than the others. Modern people are rarely trained for this kind of things, and leadership is probably not trained in classes, but born and through childhood experience.

Leadership is trained is classes, just not in a lot of forums. Usually can only find it in a focused, curriculum-style way out of the military or situations like the consultants bankers get assigned by their companies when they are about to hit Managing Director. The concept that leadership can only come from those born with it keeps many competent individuals out of those roles that (especially) tech needs in those…

If you wanted to learn to lead without the military or consultant banking, how would you?

Re: Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader

#100

Post by dkislyuk » Tue, Mar 08, 2022, 5:37 PM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #73

dkislyuk wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need for conjecture — Steve Jobs said as much multiple times (e.g. "Getting fired from Apple was the best thing that could have ever happened to me.") One of the unintended consequences for Jobs was working with Ed Catmull at Pixar in the early 90s, who by all accounts was an exceptional manager and leader, and helped Jobs develop on this dimension.

It seems I really have to get my hands on good Jobs biographie it seems.

Becoming Steve Jobs by Brent Schlender and Rick Tetzeli was a thoroughly enjoyable read for me, and captured the growth trajectory from the 1980s to the 2000s quite well.