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Show HN: All desktop software calculators are wrong, so I had to build my own

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Re: Show HN: All desktop software calculators are wrong, so I had to build my own

#151

Post by Etherlord87 »

CrendKing wrote: post #83

The one thing I don't get about all those calculator applications is the existence of the keypad. Like, the users already have the keypad right in front them called keyboard (the names literally share the "key" part). Why would anyone instead choose to use mouse to click those tiny buttons? I feel most calc designers still stuck at the skeuomorphism and never jump out of the box to think about what user really needs.…

I am a Windows power user, and the default Windows calculator is one of very few programs bundled with the OS that I actually use - and I use it quite frequently.

And I click on the number digits.

Why?

1. Usually I only click on a few buttons, for example I paste some number, then press / then 2, and then typically ENTER key on the numpad (because I can just press it with the thumb of the hand still holding the mouse). Why should I move my hand from the mouse to the keyboard in order to just press two keys? And then I would also need to check if Num Lock is enabled.

2. I had a phase trying Emacs and Vim and eventually decided I don't care about being more efficient at text editing. I want to edit the text effortlessly, and I find selecting text with mouse, or pressing arrow keys repeatedly, actually requiring less effort from me. Yes, it takes more time, but it's not a time lost, I'm thinking about some problem, and no part of my brain needs to think what kind of text editing function I should use. Likewise, clicking a few buttons in a calculator takes more time, but it's not a race. If I have to make a lot of calculations, I'm more likely to use Excel, so it's rare that I actually type stuff into the calculator.

3. Sometimes my left hand is simply not available (I'm petting my dog or eating something or maybe holding my laptop), and while I have a numpad, using functions like sine would require my right hand to travel. In similar vein, sometimes instead of Ctrl+clicking on a link to open it in a new tab, I just right-click, and choose a context option. It does annoy me slightly, but sometimes not enough to start using my left hand.

Re: Show HN: All desktop software calculators are wrong, so I had to build my own

#152

Post by fendy3002 »

jart wrote: post #129
qsort wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The discoverability argument doesn't make a lot of sense for a calculator app. One might want to list the content of a directory without knowing that the magic word is "ls", but there is a 0% chance that someone wants to compute the cosine of a number but can't figure out to type "cos".

But is it cos x, cos(x), cos[x], math.cos(x), or \cos x? Calculators are usually simple enough that all the ops can be buttons. So why not do it? There's always alternatives like Python, Mathematica, Maxima, Fricas, etc. which don't really bother with the buttons, because if they did, it'd look like a Chinese typewriter.

Additionally it also hinders those who do not natively speak English. Sqrt or square root and pow aren't terms that commonly used in calculator for other languages, at least my country.

And I guess sqrt shortform isn't that common used either.

Able to see symbols can clear those ambiguity

Re: Show HN: All desktop software calculators are wrong, so I had to build my own

#153

Post by ksec »

user3939382 wrote: post #125
CrendKing wrote: post #83

The one thing I don't get about all those calculator applications is the existence of the keypad. Like, the users already have the keypad right in front them called keyboard (the names literally share the "key" part). Why would anyone instead choose to use mouse to click those tiny buttons? I feel most calc designers still stuck at the skeuomorphism and never jump out of the box to think about what user really needs.…

Checkout Soulver on macOS. It’s awesome! It’s like an old paper tape calculator on steroids. It supports variables and comments, for example. Also, no virtual keypad :)

Still waiting for Soulver update on iOS .

Re: Show HN: All desktop software calculators are wrong, so I had to build my own

#154

Post by ytjohn »

nicoburns wrote: post #45
isoprophlex wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the macos of 2022 just a very shiny thing to browse the web with, plus a linuxy terminal? I always do file operations from the terminal if I can help it (won't save you when you need to select a file in a gui I suppose) 10+ years of owning macs, and Finder still bugs the hell out of me.

I find most of macOS reasonably well designed (at least compared to the competition), but Finder is truly awful. I highly recommend Forklift as Finder replacement.

Thanks for the Forklift recommendation. I've used Path Finder off and on for years, and it has some advantages over regular finder. But it doesn't seem to have enough differences, and their distinguishing features are not readily apparent. Path Finder also has features like upload to S3, but they put that under the menu (Commands -> upload to ).

Will definitely give Forklift a try.

Re: Show HN: All desktop software calculators are wrong, so I had to build my own

#155

Post by ytjohn »

random-one wrote: post #68
TheDudeMan wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MacOS is really bad abut this sort of thing. It fails on discoverability. For instance, how do you navigate to a hidden folder in the file-selection dialog? There is no option to show hidden, and there is no place to input the exact path. You must know two things to proceed: That there is a secret hotkey to allow exact path specification, and what that hotkey is. It took me years to learn that there was a hotkey -- I…

You can set this permanently at the terminal with: defaults write -g AppleShowAllFiles yes or to always see the hidden files in the Finder: defaults write com.apple.finder AppleShowAllFiles yes use `defaults` to see and set a number of preferences that are not apparent. Around the turn of the century Mac OS started moving to streamline the UX and making it more difficult to change (and possibly break) things in that…

Thanks for these tips. I have often resorted to making symlinks to hidden folders (dotssh -> .ssh, dotconfig -> .config) because I don't feel like looking up the KB shortcut.

One additional note: after setting the defaults, if you want it to take place immediately, you need to kill finder.

    killall Finder

Re: Show HN: All desktop software calculators are wrong, so I had to build my own

#156

Post by mackrevinack »

CrendKing wrote: post #83

The one thing I don't get about all those calculator applications is the existence of the keypad. Like, the users already have the keypad right in front them called keyboard (the names literally share the "key" part). Why would anyone instead choose to use mouse to click those tiny buttons? I feel most calc designers still stuck at the skeuomorphism and never jump out of the box to think about what user really needs.…

> The only calculators I know that makes keypad optional/hideable are SpeedCrunch and Qalculate!, and now this.

or theres "invisible" calculators like this[1] that do away with GUI altogether. microsoft's onenote has something similar built in as well

1: https://github.com/davebrny/in-line-calculator

Re: Show HN: All desktop software calculators are wrong, so I had to build my own

#157

Post by johnwalkr »

vetinari wrote: post #46
TheDudeMan wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MacOS is really bad abut this sort of thing. It fails on discoverability. For instance, how do you navigate to a hidden folder in the file-selection dialog? There is no option to show hidden, and there is no place to input the exact path. You must know two things to proceed: That there is a secret hotkey to allow exact path specification, and what that hotkey is. It took me years to learn that there was a hotkey -- I…

> You must know two things to proceed: That there is a secret hotkey to allow exact path specification, and what that hotkey is. It took me years to learn that there was a hotkey -- I just assumed that it was not possible. There's also menu item in the Finder menu - you know, that thing on the upper edge of the screen - Go | Go to folder... and it also gives away the secret hotkey.

It does fail on discoverability but there is a great feature of MacOS to compensate. The help->search function (shortcut key: Command-shift-/). I wish it was more prominent, like the quake console[1] or autocad command bar[2].

[1]Come to think of it, I used to have iTerm set up for this, I really must reconfigure it.

[2]https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/autocad/learn-explore...

Re: Show HN: All desktop software calculators are wrong, so I had to build my own

#159

Post by Induane »

qsort wrote: post #126
CydeWeys wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one disadvantage of that is you cannot easily see all available functions at once. It loses discoverability. Autocomplete on the input prompt will help rectify that somewhat, but only somewhat.

The discoverability argument doesn't make a lot of sense for a calculator app. One might want to list the content of a directory without knowing that the magic word is "ls", but there is a 0% chance that someone wants to compute the cosine of a number but can't figure out to type "cos".

I don't mind the buttons for special functions, but for numbers and operators? Yeesh that's redundant. I can type 0 through 9, + and - without needing discoverability for sure. At minimum I assume the calculator does arithmetic. Buttons for special features tell me it does other things too.

Re: Show HN: All desktop software calculators are wrong, so I had to build my own

#160

Post by CrendKing »

Etherlord87 wrote: post #151
CrendKing wrote: post #83

The one thing I don't get about all those calculator applications is the existence of the keypad. Like, the users already have the keypad right in front them called keyboard (the names literally share the "key" part). Why would anyone instead choose to use mouse to click those tiny buttons? I feel most calc designers still stuck at the skeuomorphism and never jump out of the box to think about what user really needs.…

I am a Windows power user, and the default Windows calculator is one of very few programs bundled with the OS that I actually use - and I use it quite frequently. And I click on the number digits. Why? 1. Usually I only click on a few buttons, for example I paste some number, then press / then 2, and then typically ENTER key on the numpad (because I can just press it with the thumb of the hand still holding the mouse…

Your use cases are valid and should be respected and supported. What I was saying is, there are other people who prefer keyboard for efficiency, and they don't need keypad. Make it optional and hideable so that all users are happy. It's very simple change in terms of code diff, but it seems very hard in terms of design choice since even Microsoft doesn't get it.
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