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Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

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Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#11

Post by alephnan »

Aeolun wrote: post #3

This seems likely, but I have a hard time thinking of what to do about it. I’m long past the point where I’d be fine calling their bluff, but the same thing does not seem to be true for our elected leaders (probably why I’m not one of those).

> I’m long past the point where I’d be fine calling their bluff

What do you personally stand to lose if you call the bluff and it’s not a bluff?

As much as I’d like to hate on the politicians, this isn’t a repeatable game where the outcomes average out.

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#13

Post by alephnan »

parineum wrote: post #9
Aeolun wrote: post #3

This seems likely, but I have a hard time thinking of what to do about it. I’m long past the point where I’d be fine calling their bluff, but the same thing does not seem to be true for our elected leaders (probably why I’m not one of those).

We could have put troops in the country before the invasion.

Isn’t that exactly the kind of the arrogance of the West pushing the boundaries as the East has argued is its red line ?

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#15

Post by alephnan »

shmageggy wrote: post #5

It's so incredibly sad to see this playing out exactly as many predicted and being unable to stop it (due to the threat of nuclear war). It's like standing on a train track and seeing an oncoming train miles away and yet being unable to move. So many (more) Ukrainians are about to die or suffer horribly, and much of the physical history and cultural artifacts of that city will be destroyed.

> It's so incredibly sad to see this playing out exactly as many predicted

The narrative started out that Putin is a dog backed into a corner, therefore he is bluffing and won’t actually invade. The story was also that he has the most to lose.

Maybe the premise was correct, but the conclusion hasn’t been proven valid yet.

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#16

Post by buffalo2391 »

331c8c71 wrote: post #12
jacquesm wrote: post #2

The number of warcrimes committed by the Russians is astounding. But shooting at fleeing civilians has to earn you a very special place in hell. This is pure blackmail, and it won't stop here.

Quoted post unavailable.

World you like to see photos? There are many posted on some of the darker subreddits.

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#17

Post by hef19898 »

Aeolun wrote: post #8
jacquesm wrote: post #2

The number of warcrimes committed by the Russians is astounding. But shooting at fleeing civilians has to earn you a very special place in hell. This is pure blackmail, and it won't stop here.

It’s reprehensible for sure, but I’m fairly confident it’s not all that uncommon in war. It’s just the first time in history that the whole world sees the horrors of war streamed live. Which is a good thing I guess, there’s a whole new generation now that might learn ‘never again’ without actually having to go through the experience. Edit: Of course we always had the news, but a reporter showing the aftereffects from…

Well, the first fully coverd war was Vietnam. Which played a huge role in the US public loosing faith in that war.

All the other social media covered wars were, well, covered by the parties fighting the West. Which is a different story.

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#18

Post by alephnan »

jacquesm wrote: post #10
adhesive_wombat wrote: post #7

But the leafleting campaign has been going so well! This is what modern non-nuclear war looks like: hammer on cities until there's nothing left in the hope of defeating the enemy public opinion. The only thing you can hope to do is counter-battery artillery or airstrikes, but both of those are vulnerable to shelling and airstrikes and one requires flying into enemy territory.

Nuclear weapons are in play. If not for that the Russians would have to face the rest of Europe and possibly other countries as well.

Well isn’t that exactly the game dynamic and prisoner’s dilemma?

What I don’t understand from the West was this arrogant attitude that it is unilaterally a losing hand for Putin, rather than a prisoner’s dilemma?

Even if he is acting to his detriment, it may be very well be the most optimal of moves he could make ( in his calculus ).

The idea of him being a madmen has been fluctuating in and out, but that’s only if you look at the outcome. If you consider all the outcomes, it might very well be rational ( morality is not necessarily part of the rationale ).

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#19

Post by jacquesm »

331c8c71 wrote: post #12
jacquesm wrote: post #2

The number of warcrimes committed by the Russians is astounding. But shooting at fleeing civilians has to earn you a very special place in hell. This is pure blackmail, and it won't stop here.

Quoted post unavailable.

Enough to convince Human Rights Watch.

" Dat rapporteert mensenrechtenorganisatie Human Rights Watch (HRW) op basis van ooggetuigen en beeldanalyses. "

According to a report by humanrights organization Human Rights Watch based on eye witness accounts and image analysis.

https://www.nu.nl/spanningen-oekraine/6185514/mensenrechteno...

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#20

Post by pokepim »

jacquesm wrote: post #2

The number of warcrimes committed by the Russians is astounding. But shooting at fleeing civilians has to earn you a very special place in hell. This is pure blackmail, and it won't stop here.

Unfortunately its not that uncommon, we did that too in Vietnam where 2 million civillians died. Our government set up agenda to „bomb the back to stone age”. We dropped 3 times more bombs than were dropped during whole ww2.

Its unimaginable how brutal that war was, no wonder why there was so much opposition back then, sadly nobody was tried for war crimes ugh.

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