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Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

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Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#161

Post by Vinnl »

coolso wrote: post #144
genocidicbunny wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless carefully managed, a vegan diet has a chance of lacking some critical nutrients for the development of young children. I think a vitamin B12 deficiency is common.

My ex had the same issue while on a vegan diet - and she was an adult. Random dizzy spells and faintness to the point of almost passing out. It boggles my mind anyone would ascribe to a diet that literally requires vitamin supplements through artificial means in order to be complete. And those are just the obvious deficiencies.

> It boggles my mind anyone would ascribe to a diet that literally requires vitamin supplements through artificial means in order to be complete.

I used to think that, but at some point I thought: what's the big deal? If you're still eating healthy, still eating tasty food, and you just also consume a pill or two every day, is that really so bad, or does it just feel "wrong"?

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#162

Post by Lorkki »

1_player wrote: post #148
Lorkki wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

B12 supplementation is recommended for a vegan diet at any age. Besides that, I'm not sure what you mean by careful management. Eating a normal varied diet where the proteins come from plant sources gets you covered. Where I live, a vegan diet is recognised as part of the official dietary recommendations for children, and is provided also in schools and kindergartens: https://www.ruokavirasto.fi/en/themes/healthy-die…

Yet on the page strictly about babies and children, the recommendation is to "[use] a moderate amount of poultry meat and some red meat as a source of protein. [...] Eating fish two to three times a week is recommended for the whole family." https://www.ruokavirasto.fi/en/themes/healthy-diet/nutrition... There's far too many stories of babies dying of malnutrition on vegan diets. While it's possible to make them heal…

That site is a bit confusingly laid out; the page I linked to introduces the vegan diet for all age groups, while the part you quoted concerns the recommendations for the omnivore diet. In the material that maternity clinics hand out, the equivalent vegan recommendation for first solid proteins are tofu and red lentils. The linked full set of recommendations also covers more specifics for infants and toddlers: https://www.julkari.fi/handle/10024/137770

Basically the only exception is infant formula, unless the child has a diagnosed milk allergy. There's also a general recommendation against restricted, e.g. macrobiotic and raw diets.

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#163

Post by waffleiron »

coolso wrote: post #144
genocidicbunny wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless carefully managed, a vegan diet has a chance of lacking some critical nutrients for the development of young children. I think a vitamin B12 deficiency is common.

My ex had the same issue while on a vegan diet - and she was an adult. Random dizzy spells and faintness to the point of almost passing out. It boggles my mind anyone would ascribe to a diet that literally requires vitamin supplements through artificial means in order to be complete. And those are just the obvious deficiencies.

> It boggles my mind anyone would ascribe to a diet that literally requires vitamin supplements through artificial means in order to be complete.

Most non vegans also get their B12 through supplementation. It just is fed to animals directly or indirectly as cobalt supplement.

> Most forages and feedstuffs fed to dairy and beef animals do not contain adequate quantities of cobalt to support the rumen and animal requirements. Consequently, supplemental cobalt must be added to beef and dairy rations. [1]

[1] https://agriking.com/importance-of-cobalt-to-beef-dairy-catt...

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#164

Post by candiodari »

waffleiron wrote: post #134
genocidicbunny wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless carefully managed, a vegan diet has a chance of lacking some critical nutrients for the development of young children. I think a vitamin B12 deficiency is common.

Thats the same for any infant diet, doesn’t mean it’s impossible. Second, breastfeeding is vegan too (if the mother consents ;) ).

Meat/fish and byproducts are generally considered a "quick fix" for a great many dietary issues. Giving a baby something with meat in it once a week when they start feeding, once a month after 2 years (or more often) will fix most diets. Any real vegan diet will need to consider a great many factors.

Even vegan diets that aren't going to kill you in the long term are still going to cause problems. For example, a vegan diet with >60% fruit (or fruit and grains), will cause amino acid shortages. Too little fruit, of course, causes Vitamin C shortages.

Luckily it's easy to fool yourself into eating meat. Many forms of candy, for example, are meat byproducts. So is, of course, a latte.

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#165

Post by ajdegol »

coolso wrote: post #144
genocidicbunny wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless carefully managed, a vegan diet has a chance of lacking some critical nutrients for the development of young children. I think a vitamin B12 deficiency is common.

My ex had the same issue while on a vegan diet - and she was an adult. Random dizzy spells and faintness to the point of almost passing out. It boggles my mind anyone would ascribe to a diet that literally requires vitamin supplements through artificial means in order to be complete. And those are just the obvious deficiencies.

Vitamin B12 is made by bacteria, it's in all dirt, and untreated water. You absorb it through your skin. It's pretty easy to see how it wasn't long ago that we would be having an abundance of vitamin b12 from everywhere.

Cows don't make it, they eat it in soil. Which, actually, because most of them are factory farmed, they are fed the supplement. Nothing natural about that; in fact, you're just skipping the middle-man and cruetly.

"But I only eat grass-grazed happy cows!" Good for you! Now how about a solution that can work for everyone.

You want to know what the real next pandemic is. It's going to come from the unbelievable abuse of antibiotics the meat industry is responsible for. Medicine will be set back a century.

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#166

Post by genocidicbunny »

Lorkki wrote: post #145
genocidicbunny wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless carefully managed, a vegan diet has a chance of lacking some critical nutrients for the development of young children. I think a vitamin B12 deficiency is common.

B12 supplementation is recommended for a vegan diet at any age. Besides that, I'm not sure what you mean by careful management. Eating a normal varied diet where the proteins come from plant sources gets you covered. Where I live, a vegan diet is recognised as part of the official dietary recommendations for children, and is provided also in schools and kindergartens: https://www.ruokavirasto.fi/en/themes/healthy-die…

That very same link states that "a carefully composed vegan diet" can be beneficial. Thats my point -- with a vegan diet you have to be much more conscientious about nutrition. Many people are not. With your average healthy omnivorous diet, you rarely have any significant nutrient deficiencies that you have to worry about. Said diet ends up being simpler to implement in practice. That's what I mean by careful management; A healthy vegan diet for children is not impossible, but it takes more effort.

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#167

Post by moistly »

asdfwsgrtrtt44 wrote: post #91
moistly wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, show us evidence of these voices. Particularly if they are influential. Let’s see the evidence for your claim.

President of the US influential enough for you? "There’s a simple, basic proposition: If you’re vaccinated, you’re not going to be hospitalized, you’re not going to be in an ICU unit, and you’re not going to die." https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/20...

Fair. He should not have used that language.

Hey, why use a new throwaway account? Don’t be a chickenshit. Stand behind your claim. Especially since it’s truthful.

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#168

Post by mandmandam »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #126
ekianjo wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> anti-vaxxers Instead of having an uneducated opinion, you should know that polio vaccines can sometimes cause... polio. Yeah, that's not even remotely debated, it's well known: https://www.npr.org/2019/11/16/780068006/how-the-oral-polio-... https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/hcp/vaccine-derived-p...

This is misleading fear mongering, the people refusing vaccines are in western developed countries, where they are offered injectable forms of the vaccine. Refusing free and approved vaccination programmes is anti-social behaviour and a public health hazard.

First off, the reason people refusing vaccines are in western countries is because that's who can afford vaccines. Look at the corona vaccination rates in Africa, then tell me why a 30 year old Westerner needs a fourth dose.

Second, the guy posted an NPR and a CDC link to back up his statement of fact. Both articles provide plenty of context, so accusing him of "misleading fear mongering" is, ironically enough, misleading fear mongering.

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#169

Post by master-lincoln »

waffleiron wrote: post #134
genocidicbunny wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless carefully managed, a vegan diet has a chance of lacking some critical nutrients for the development of young children. I think a vitamin B12 deficiency is common.

Thats the same for any infant diet, doesn’t mean it’s impossible. Second, breastfeeding is vegan too (if the mother consents ;) ).

How is milk from a breast of a human vegan? Is there a definition of veganism that says an animal product that was given with consent is considered vegan?

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#170

Post by deepsun »

waffleiron wrote: post #125
sofixa wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children aren't vegan-friendly either, and the vaccines in question are mostly for children, so does it really matter?

Children aren’t vegan-friendly, please explain?

I think they refer that humans are mammals, and young mammals feed on milk, by definition. And milk isn't vegan.
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