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Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

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Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#151

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Humans remain humans. Blame the systems that amplify extreme voices.

People are responsible for their own behavior and can make choices. You can make choices. They aren't victims of systems.

They are both. Theoretically they can make their own choice, but the are also heavily influenced by systems. So people who build, maintain and execute the systems have a large responsibility too.

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#152

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Actually, the 'Spanish' flu would be a better example. As influenza in general. Young children are a high risk group. But as Nietzsche said, "Out of life’s school of war—what doesn’t kill me, makes me stronger." https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/why-did-1918-flu-kill... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza

"what doesn’t kill me, makes me stronger."

Do enough medicine and you'll see just how wrong this is. Every medical issue leaves damage on your body. Mostly very small. Even fractures, the example often given, yes, a broken bone grows back stronger ... and less flexible, more brittle and heavier, more calcified, with less blood going through it a fact it will not cease to remind you off once you turn 55 or so.

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#153
post #122

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Children aren't vegan-friendly either, and the vaccines in question are mostly for children, so does it really matter?

Children aren’t vegan-friendly, please explain?

Cannibalism is frowned upon regardless of your lifestyle choices.

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#154
post #145

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B12 supplementation is recommended for a vegan diet at any age. Besides that, I'm not sure what you mean by careful management. Eating a normal varied diet where the proteins come from plant sources gets you covered. Where I live, a vegan diet is recognised as part of the official dietary recommendations for children, and is provided also in schools and kindergartens: https://www.ruokavirasto.fi/en/themes/healthy-die…

Yet on the page strictly about babies and children, the recommendation is to "[use] a moderate amount of poultry meat and some red meat as a source of protein. [...] Eating fish two to three times a week is recommended for the whole family." https://www.ruokavirasto.fi/en/themes/healthy-diet/nutrition... There's far too many stories of babies dying of malnutrition on vegan diets. While it's possible to make them heal…

> There's a difference between surviving and thriving.

And you have given no proof that a child can't thrive on a vegan diet. Surely it's not something a public health authority recommends, because people generally aren't vegan.

I can't find any study supporting that a vegan diet for infants and children can't be as healthy as a non-vegan diet. There are always outliers, but you also have children on non-vegan diets that are missing vitamins and nutrients.

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#155
post #142

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Many vaccines aren't vegan-friendly (they're often grown in eggs), and pretty much all of them go through animal testing stages during clinic trials. It's not at all surprising that vegans would be anti-vax.

> Many vaccines aren't vegan-friendly (they're often grown in eggs) Do these vegan anti-vaxxers have an issue with aborting humans still in the “egg-stage”?

From discussions with vegans I've known, the objection to eggs and dairy is largely based on the (mis) treatment of the animals as part of industrial scale production. It's not (usually) a mystical belief about the sanctity of some life essence - more about observable apparent suffering.

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#156
post #146

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There's a mosque around the corner where I live. I see old people go in and out, hardly any teenagers. Just like in the church to which my parents-in-law once brought us. How many of those hasidic jews' 4.1 children keep the faith, and how many get a career instead? 0.5, 1.5, 2.5, 3.5? If it's 3.5 I'll have to ask why they succeed so well.

3.9

Wow. How did they succeed so well? Do you have a source?

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#157
post #141

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I find it disheartening so many people are willing to gloat over fellow humans' deaths, regardless of the reason, some notion of "karma", "Darwinism", etc. (I am triple vaccinated, for the record)

what would you expect? sympathy for people who should know better?

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#158
post #60

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> I'm pretty sure we're better educated than any time in human history. The problem is we've had it so good for so long that we don't remember what it was like. Why take a bunch of preventative stuff for something that never happens? Feels like a waste of time. In reality, those preventative steps are why it doesn't.

In Carl Sagan's "The Demon Haunted World" he talks about how Europe regressed and became incredibly religious. A lot of secular medicine was lost, and the Queen, the richest person in the last, was pregnant 18 times, 15 dies in childbirth and 3 did not live to be adults. Science has solved these problems not CEOs, or wealth and those are the things we worship in the US

Carl Sagan was also incredibly wrong almost every time he talked about history. In many ways he was vanguard of the kind of hubris we commonly see today on social media, self assured of his own knowledge.

Just to give you an example. He repeated common misconception about Library of Alexandria being something unique and it's burning being the break between high civilization and barbarism. But it was nothing of the sort.[1] The very fact that the library has been ransacked, burned or otherwise damaged both before and after the "pivotal event" Sagan describes, is a strong indicator of his ignorance.

And doesn't stop there. Whenever Sagan talked about "Dark ages" or anything remotely related he was wrong. The very term has been considered inaccurate at the time, and it is even more so today.[2]

[1]https://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2020/02/05/carl-sagan-was-... [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Ages_(historiography)

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#159

The article does not mention this, but it's quite probably the unvaccinated child in question is from the fast-expanding Hasidic community in Jerusalem, many of whom are strongly anti-vax. This has led to measles outbreaks in the past in NYC as well, and the community was also hit especially hard by COVID. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/23/opinion/my-fellow-hasidic...

According to the Israeli ministry of health the kid got infected with the virus from the vaccination that includes a living weak virus, a vaccine that is not given in many countries and have been not given in Israel for almost 20 years. The decision to give the weakened virus was based on live viruses found in the sewage of Bedouin community in Rahat.

Also the ultra orthodox Jews in Jerusalem are pro-vaccine and the number of the anti-vax people among them is much lower than the anti-vax secular people in Israel.

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#160
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3.9

Wow. How did they succeed so well? Do you have a source?

They succeed in part by insulating their children from Western culture (no TV, no Internet, little interaction with outsiders), and by giving them very little in terms of secular education, so that getting a career is not really an option for most.
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