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Client asks for 100% uptime

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Re: Client asks for 100% uptime

#81

I don't understand what the issue is. The client wants you to plan for disaster, and they aren't math oriented, so asking for 100% probability sounds reasonable. The engineer, as engineers are prone to do, remembered his first day of prob&stat 101, without considering that the client might not. When they say this, they aren't thinking about nuclear winter, they are thinking about Fred dumping his coffee on the office…

Maybe it would be good to write the custom an email explaining stuff like 99%=Well run server 99.9%=Multiple backups, will cover most hardware failures 99.99%=Top grade commercial 99.999%=What companies like Google or Yahoo can achieve 99.9999%=Hopefully the US strategic defense systems are this reliable Also, you're assumption about the servers are entirely independant. That's a reasonable assumption in terms of fir…

99.999%=What companies like Google or Yahoo can achieve

Even worse. Five nines is five minutes of downtime per year. The core Google search experience blew five nines for half a decade with just one outage -- the one where they marked the entire Internet as a malware site, which took somewhere like 40 minutes to address.

This kind of thing makes me dismiss talk of nines as fetishism or sales-speak. You can say your system is going to have five nines of uptime at the application level. You're probably lying.

P.S. Pricing-wise, a client who wants > 99.5% either wants to pay mid-six figures (and up up up) or they want something which is deeply irrational for you to offer.

Re: Client asks for 100% uptime

#82
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your failover code never has bugs? See the linked discussion, only 3 out of 20 top sites had 5 nines.

For enough time and money dumped into code auditing and hiring smart people, no. Not that most companies should do that, but it is possible if you want to pay for it. Most companies (rightly) prioritize innovation, scalability and profit margins over absolute reliability. How many of those top sites actually prioritized reliability? Is it even justifiable for their business models? I bet you can find a lot better rel…

Nasdaq states that their system has 4 nine's: http://www.nasdaqtrader.com/trader.aspx?id=tradingusequities

Re: Client asks for 100% uptime

#84

Look at F5 networks Global Traffic Manager. It's really just a fancy DNS server. You set your TTL (time to live) down to just a few seconds and it monitors your main and standby sites. If one of the sites goes down it changes your A records to point to the new site. It can even do load balancing across sites based on response time or number of connections. They are expensive, but this is how large companies like Yaho…

I have a very naive question but would appreciate an answer.

Does using Amazon's CloudFront provide the same functionality if you live inside their cloud?

Re: Client asks for 100% uptime

#85

100% uptime is not an operational requirement – it's contractual. A client that demands 100% uptime isn't being unreasonable; they're looking for a contract remedy (most likely a termination right) if/when the site goes down. 1. "Uptime" is defined in many, many ways. In the OP's article, it's the definition of uptime that seems unreasonable. Normally, the demarc points for the network segments and equipment being me…

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Re: Client asks for 100% uptime

#86

I don't understand what the issue is. The client wants you to plan for disaster, and they aren't math oriented, so asking for 100% probability sounds reasonable. The engineer, as engineers are prone to do, remembered his first day of prob&stat 101, without considering that the client might not. When they say this, they aren't thinking about nuclear winter, they are thinking about Fred dumping his coffee on the office…

Maybe it would be good to write the custom an email explaining stuff like 99%=Well run server 99.9%=Multiple backups, will cover most hardware failures 99.99%=Top grade commercial 99.999%=What companies like Google or Yahoo can achieve 99.9999%=Hopefully the US strategic defense systems are this reliable Also, you're assumption about the servers are entirely independant. That's a reasonable assumption in terms of fir…

99.999% is the standard for landline telephones, which I think is a pretty decent analogy here. Unless the customer has some crummy VoIP solution and doesn't trust their phones anymore :P.

Re: Client asks for 100% uptime

#87
post #18

Their craziness doesn't matter. Usually crazy customers aren't rich. So if you build to their craziness, you'll lose the customer. You need to build an appropriate infrastructure that will win the bid, figure out what you can achieve (99.9%/99.99% uptime) and build in enough overhead to cover your SLA penalties. Or negotiate a monitoring methodology that is in your favor. (ie. exclude planned maintenance windows, use…

[deleted]

Re: Client asks for 100% uptime

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a big difference between getting >95% up time and being able to actually back up an SLA for > 95% up time.

There is? What exactly are you doing that you need 20 days a year of downtime to accomplish? That's a full business day a week. If you can't commit to that low of an SLA, you're doing it wrong.

Often SLAs aren't given per full year, though. Think less of 20 days a year, and more of X hours per week if something goes severely wrong.

Re: Client asks for 100% uptime

#89
The issue is of expectations and education.

Many clients ask for the following without knowing better:

- 100 pct uptime

- Zero defects

- Zero scope changes

- Zero perceptible latency in all cases

It is up to the professional specialist to educate the client in terms they understand. Only after explaining in terms they understand can you call them unreasonable. If the client understands and is still unreasonable, the true professional has the obligation to walk away.

Re: Client asks for 100% uptime

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it would be good to write the custom an email explaining stuff like 99%=Well run server 99.9%=Multiple backups, will cover most hardware failures 99.99%=Top grade commercial 99.999%=What companies like Google or Yahoo can achieve 99.9999%=Hopefully the US strategic defense systems are this reliable Also, you're assumption about the servers are entirely independant. That's a reasonable assumption in terms of fir…

99.999% is the standard for landline telephones, which I think is a pretty decent analogy here. Unless the customer has some crummy VoIP solution and doesn't trust their phones anymore :P.

It is? According to whom? One good rainstorm can knock phone lines out for long enough to mess up five nines for a LONG time.
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