Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends • Hacker News Board

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#861

Post by dzikimarian » Sun, Mar 06, 2022, 10:19 AM UTC

tsol wrote: post #824

dzikimarian wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all - most of the countries recognized their mistakes and got rid of governments pushing for such things. Secondly - many ghosts of the past are still torment western countries (e.g. last year BLM protests), and in general they are at least recognized as a problem, by general population, not that stubbornly deflected and "whatabouted" as we can observe now in Russia. BTW I'm not westerner. I'm living far clo…

>First of all - most of the countries recognized their mistakes and got rid of governments pushing for such things. After benefiting from stealing their resources, eventually colonization ended in no small part due to huge amounts of resistance from the colonies(ex Ghandi). I don't think that's exactly deserving of a humanitarian prize. Not only are there are reparations for those who were used, there were even recen…

>After benefiting from stealing their resources

I fail to see what point you're trying to make. You're saying, that in your opinion, other countries were more agressive in the past than Russia (which isn't true - I still see evidences on streets of my country), therefore Russia has unused quota of assholery, and should be allowed to murder Ukrainians whithout being criticized?

> That isn't fixing the problem that's just saying "yeah well we feel bad and have problems due to the abuse we inflicted on others".

Sadly in many cases yes, but also in many cases there were actual govermental or non-govermental help for regions violated in the past. This is not the case in Russia - Russia ended it's invasions only after being forced out and didn't ever even addmited, that it was doing something wrong. Quite the opposite - it tends to suggest it was doing something good like for e.g. in this case: https://twitter.com/radeksikorski/status/1480536745112444936 - have you ever seen such comment from any British official regarding India?

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#862

Post by hatsubishi » Sun, Mar 06, 2022, 10:48 AM UTC

vhgyu75e6u wrote: post #626

hatsubishi wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spain is a very rich country though, 10th in the world by total wealth. What you're comparing is the current GDP, which is a different thing than being rich, it's production. In Spain production may be lower but still people enjoy a great quality of life because they are living of the wealth generated before, i.e. everything is extremely cheap including real estate.

> everything is extremely cheap including real estate If you have the salary of SV sure, the real state is cheap but for those working and living in Spain it is not

You can buy a nice flat in some areas for less than 20k € so I'd say it's quite cheap, even for locals. There's a website that pairs local salaries to time it takes to buy property and in Spain is quite low.

Rent for a room in a city centre goes from 200€, nice flat 500€ big one 600€

Regarding salaries, it's smaller number of currency units but things are very cheap as well, really great place for investing. Infrastructure is better than in central Europe (was there recently for over a month) so it has everything to grow, and it most definitely will.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#863

Post by mantas » Sun, Mar 06, 2022, 10:56 AM UTC

tsol wrote: post #382

mantas wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is how to separate Russians fleeing Putin from Russians who just look for financial comfort and still support Putin. One of stark examples is Turks in Germany still voting for Erdogan.

Maybe this is very American of me to say-- but what about them? They have freedom of speech even if it's not something I agree with. We don't throw everyone who calls themselves nazis into jail.. why try to punish everyone who might agree with Putin? Are we in the business of policing political attitudes now?

Sure they can have their opinions. But they should stay in their home countries if they want to support those authoritarian politics.

Those people who agree with Putin may eventually start interfering with our politics. Either by enabling pro-Putin politics or pushing Putin-shaped local flavor. Why let in people who may turn society to worse?

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#864

Post by pvaldes » Sun, Mar 06, 2022, 11:03 AM UTC

politician wrote: post #441

grujicd wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most sanctions have inverse effect of strengthening the authoritharian government. Maybe if you have free press and strong oposition you can use sanctions to turn population against governemnt. However, my experience of suffering under combination of sanctions and authorian government is that dictatorship gets stronger in these cases. I would even support sanctions in the 90-ties against Serbia if they increased our…

A weak, underfed population whose military cannot keep its vehicles in working order isn’t going to be invading its neighbors with any degree of success.

I wouldn't discard part bad management, part deliberate passive-aggressive boycott against the war by military people.

You don't want to shoot your relatives in another country and you are afraid to meet the same fate as your general killed from a long distance because crazy politician in power had a tantrum?.

The solution is simple: Some pieces in your tank broke, you turn in the wrong direction and get stuck in a marsh, or gasoline vanish mysteriously overnight and you are stuck out of the war until a replacement arrives with the spare parts.

This can lasts for several weeks or months if you must buy it in another countries and nobody is selling you. Or can need to fill a lot of bureaucracy to just take if from another tank and send it to the front (and then you have 2 tanks out of service instead one). When you finally arrive to the fight there is a lot less of enemies to deal with.

With the advantage that you didn't deserted and don't fear retaliation. You can blame the tank maker or any other that is lower in the food chain. It was not your fault.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#865

Post by pydry » Sun, Mar 06, 2022, 11:25 AM UTC

signatoremo wrote: post #815

pydry wrote: post #804

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why do you think NATO is an offensive alliance against Russia? It was set up specifically to oppose Moscow. It destroyed Libya. It is an offensive alliance without question. That doesnt excuse Russia, but Russia invading Ukraine doesnt excuse NATO either.

> It was set up specifically to oppose Moscow. Wrong. It was set up to oppose the Soviet Union. Not Russia. Putin himself was talking about joining NATO. Regardless of how serious he was, no country consider joining an organization if it’s hostile to them. > It is an offensive alliance without question. Good thing you mentioned Libya, because that’s the only campaign that NATO involved in an offensive role. Even putt…

>Wrong. It was set up to oppose the Soviet Union. Not Russia.

I said Moscow. Did Moscow stop being Moscow?

>Good thing you mentioned Libya, because that’s the only campaign that NATO involved in an offensive role.

One rape makes you a rapist.

>an offensive organization that exists for 73 years but has only waged a single war

They've waged many. I gave Libya as an example because there are no shades of gray in that war and because it was the war that shaped Putin's view of what NATO's endgame was for Russia (quite fairly, IMHO).

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#866

Post by mkl95 » Sun, Mar 06, 2022, 11:26 AM UTC

hatsubishi wrote: post #862

vhgyu75e6u wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> everything is extremely cheap including real estate If you have the salary of SV sure, the real state is cheap but for those working and living in Spain it is not

You can buy a nice flat in some areas for less than 20k € so I'd say it's quite cheap, even for locals. There's a website that pairs local salaries to time it takes to buy property and in Spain is quite low. Rent for a room in a city centre goes from 200€, nice flat 500€ big one 600€ Regarding salaries, it's smaller number of currency units but things are very cheap as well, really great place for investing. Infrastr…

> Rent for a room in a city centre goes from 200€, nice flat 500€ big one 600€

Rent for a room in the centre of Barcelona or Madrid goes from €500, nice flat €900 big one €1200+.

If you work in tech, there's a high probability that you work for a company with their HQ there. If you combine that with the fact remote work culture is still settling in, there's also a high chance that you also live there.

> You can buy a nice flat in some areas for less than 20k

A nice flat in the outskirts of Barcelona or Madrid should be about 200-250k. As you get closer to the centre, prices approach 400k, even 500k+ in some areas.

Other than that, Northern Spain has some infamously expensive areas that are comparable to Barcelona and Madrid. Same thing happens in the Costa Brava, some areas in the outskirts of Madrid, and some areas in Southern Spain.

Also, only 11% of the workforce work under what locals call an "indefinite contract". Banks only trust that 11%.

Spain is ideal for a digital nomad that is willing to live in some run down area or what people call "Empty Spain". And even in those places, finding a nice flat for €20k sounds like a pipe dream.

Honestly, if I were a digital nomad from some European country and I wanted to move to Spain, I would just move to Andorra. Spain is a short drive away and taxes are way lower.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#867

Post by akrymski » Sun, Mar 06, 2022, 11:28 AM UTC

risyachka wrote: post #588

akrymski wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a very small number of protesters. We'd need a million people to rise up in Moscow alone to make a difference. Putin has too much support among his voters atm. And the iron curtain only solidifies his propaganda machine.

>> There is a very small number of protesters. You sure? Or just speculate to support your point?

I follow russian anti-war channels where people share videos of protestors. Numbers are very small I'm afraid (more cops than protestors).

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#868

Post by akrymski » Sun, Mar 06, 2022, 11:30 AM UTC

lostmsu wrote: post #813

akrymski wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell that to Stalin

In his times there were no easy ways to organize masses of people due to lack of efficient decentralized means of communication.

Social media is mostly banned. Posting anything online against the war is a 15 year jail sentence.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#869

Post by akrymski » Sun, Mar 06, 2022, 11:37 AM UTC

lolinder wrote: post #762

akrymski wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but the sanctions are aimed at the rich businessmen not military leaders (who aren't necessarily all that rich). Eg Khadorkovsky was the richest oligarch of Russia, has been jailed and became a major opponent of Putin. Wonder who are the oligarchs of USA by that definition?

What makes you think you know better than anyone else who is actually running Russia?

I am Russian, and I know some billionaires ("oligarchs"). They don't spend much time in Russia and don't support Putin in any way. More than anyone they realise how fucked up the regime is, which is why they stash money abroad. Putin does what he wants.

An American billionaire is a successful businessman. A Russian billionaire is an oligarch.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#870

Post by hatsubishi » Sun, Mar 06, 2022, 11:44 AM UTC

mkl95 wrote: post #866

hatsubishi wrote: post #862

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can buy a nice flat in some areas for less than 20k € so I'd say it's quite cheap, even for locals. There's a website that pairs local salaries to time it takes to buy property and in Spain is quite low. Rent for a room in a city centre goes from 200€, nice flat 500€ big one 600€ Regarding salaries, it's smaller number of currency units but things are very cheap as well, really great place for investing. Infrastr…

> Rent for a room in a city centre goes from 200€, nice flat 500€ big one 600€ Rent for a room in the centre of Barcelona or Madrid goes from €500, nice flat €900 big one €1200+. If you work in tech, there's a high probability that you work for a company with their HQ there. If you combine that with the fact remote work culture is still settling in, there's also a high chance that you also live there. > You can buy a…

Of course it depends of the city, bigger cities, right in the middle it can go up to 2-3k€ a month. I'm not saying right in the middle but close to the centre, maybe 10 min by metro. Also Spain is not Barcelona and Madrid.

You're saying a lot of wrong things, for starters

> Spain is ideal for a digital nomad that is willing to live in some run down area or what people call "Empty Spain".

As a tech worker, and digital nomad myself, I don't live in any "Run down area", I have a high german salary and chose to live here in Spain because quality of life is much higher than in central Europe, including Baden-Württemberg, Czechia, Poland, etc.

With this salary I've bought many properties in Spain, I can literally buy a flat near the beach for less than 20k euros. Stop spreading lies about Spain.

Just a quick look: https://www.idealista.com/venta-viviendas/alicante-alacant-a... there's 491 places for sale in Alicante with price < 60k euros, I could buy 2 in 1 year, average tech worker in Alicante makes 40k+ so they can buy one in over a year.